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Objectivism & Thanksgiving?

Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 2 months ago to Culture
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Thanksgiving is, by tradition, given to a being that Objectivists say either does not exist or is unnecessary. Hence I am curious how, if at all, Objectivists deal with Thanksgiving. When responding, for clarity to those reading this thread, identify yourself as either atheist, agnostic, or deist. As for myself, I cannot rationally conclude that this universe is not the product of a rational mind. There is way too much that would be inexplicable.


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
    I agree with MM, that producers celebrate production.

    We also celebrate people going off to live life deliberately. If they want follow religion, the FSM, or other stuff I think is not backed up by evidence, it's their life to fly their freak flag. It's usually the freaks who most people reject that move society and production forward.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You seem not to understand some fundamental truths. "...one man's rationality is another's irrationality right?" No, rationality is objective. Moreover, the laws of logic are absolute, independent of human perception. You do not thank the street per se for being there, but you should offer a silent thanks to the people who built the streets so that you do not slog through mud.

    Your last sentence seems to be missing a word, but as I understand it, you only open the door to paralytic agnosticism: you cannot know everything, therefore you know nothing.

    Have you ever taken a lightbulb apart? or a refrigerator ... I am so thankful...
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  • Posted by $ 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Happy Thanksgiving to you and all as well. I will be driving, grading, and eating all day tomorrow.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 2 months ago
    Hello jbrenner,
    I haven't given thank's to a higher being for longer than I can remember, but when I was a kid... Now I am atheostic... :) I have no opinion because I have no evidence or experience upon which to form one with conviction. Anyway, I still give thank's, but it is for/to my good fortune and all who have been of assistance along the way and to all of my friends and family for their support and companionship.
    For your Thanksgiving listening pleasure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m57gz...

    Happy Thanksgiving to all!
    O.A.
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  • Posted by $ 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Most people are familiar with the Puritans celebrating Thanksgiving with the surrounding Indians at Plymouth, MA. However, the tradition of Thanksgiving actually goes back at least to Jesus and the Last Supper. In Greek, Eucharist (celebrated by Christians) means thanksgiving. Jesus claimed that the bread and wine that his apostles shared were his body and blood (cannibalism of a sacrifice) and that the rite of Eucharistic thanksgiving should be celebrated in his memory. Anyone who calls himself/herself Christian cannot at the same time be an Objectivist. According to Objectivism, Christianity is an abominable celebration of a sacrifice, and is a great contradiction.

    Arguably, the celebration of thanksgiving goes back at least to the seder meal of the Israelites on the night before their liberation from Egypt, perhaps further.
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  • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    To answer your question, it is beyond what I have facts to back up. It may be reasonable or unreasonable since I have no proof.
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  • Posted by james464 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    When I walk down the street, I do not randomly thank the street for keeping me from sinking into oblivion, or gravity for existing; thankfulness denotes an object of the thanks, else, the term is defunct.

    I do have a question for you. When you say that something that does not line up with your logical mind (reasoning process), do you mean that it is unreasonable, or just that it is beyond your ability to reason?

    I am asking because I have encountered some who say that if they cannot reason it, then it is unreasonable, which implies it is irrational; however, one man's rationality is another's irrationality right? The fallacy in this reasoning process is that it ignores all the information available for complete reasoning because non-anthropogenic existence, and I would venture to say even anthropogenic existence, understanding would require omniscience, which is impossible in Objectivism.
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  • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    IMHO it would not matter if Ayn described it as such but I consider her correct. To the people of the time, it was produce or die. It was definitely a producers holiday! They were alive to celebrate.

    Makes me wonder if America would be better off if it was still that way. Just saying.
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    Posted by $ Snezzy 10 years, 2 months ago
    Here is an answer provided by Debi Ghate, vice president of academic programs at the Ayn Rand Institute. It's from The Christian Science Monitor, about six years ago.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/O...

    Here is the key quote from the article...

    "Ayn Rand described Thanksgiving as 'a typically American holiday' whose 'essential, secular meaning is a celebration of successful production. It is a producers' holiday. The lavish meal is a symbol of the fact that abundant consumption is the result and reward of production.' She was right."
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  • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 2 months ago
    Agnostic. When I look at the universe I wonder how it could happen & what started it all so I hold the possibility of something greater but I cannot prove nor disprove it. When something cannot be proven it doesn't work with my logical mind. For example, why is a 10 minute old fawn afraid of humans, or afraid of anything for that matter. I have walked up on one and they try as hard as they can to run or stumble. I cannot explain where they get this natural fear?

    But giving thanks for my health and the health and well being of my family and friends is what it is all about to me. While much of what we do can be derived from our own actions including much of our health, to live a long healthy life, free from major issues or accidents seems simply lucky... or...what??
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 2 months ago
    Using Aristotle's logic and Galileo's scientific method, can you prove that this universe is the product of a rational mind?

    I am neither atheist, nor agnostic, nor deist insofar as no one whose works I have read has proven whether the universe was created or has always existed. Have you read of any such proof?
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