AAARGH!!
The very definition of the vicious circle.

True.
I'm retired and primarily living on savings. Who knows how long that will be viable. Will you all be so kind as to support me? I think I'd swallow the end of my S&W before that happens.

Who knows how far down is down. A major loss of freedom? Financial collapse? Complete dissolution?

It's the politicians and power elites who have done their best to convince the masses that anarchy is bad and scary. They are the last ones who would promote or desire anarchy, as the forcibly-funded state apparatus is what gives them their power. What they want is chaos, as an excuse to wield greater power.

Anarchy does not mean chaos, it simply means "no rulers." It means that all people are truly equals, and politicians and government employees aren't assumed to be above us, as a ruling class. Anarchy means we choose our leaders voluntarily, and are free to withdraw our support if we don't like what they do. It means that we pay for protection (police and military) and court services voluntarily and can, again, withdraw financial support if we disagree with the way the services are provided or their pricing. Ayn Rand advocated voluntary funding as well; it's the only way to keep government accountable and efficient.

Who exactly in the anarchist/voluntaryist movement do you find "scary?" Murray Rothbard? Larken Rose? Jeff Berwick? Jeffery Tucker? Adam Kokesh? Judge Napolitano? Ron Paul? I find them brilliant, logical, and persuasive.

"Alongside Night" is mentioned In the Gulch here: https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post... and other topics.

How far down we are is equal to how far up we can climb.

I like that book a lot. I can easily imagine such a black free market.

book is easy to find. movie is harder to find. I dont think they made it into a DVD, but they should. Its like atlas shrugged after the meltdown.

They will have to see that they cant have their dole AND the freedoms they currently have. Since I went to college in the mid 60's, the socialists have taken 95% of whatever I saved during college years through inflation and money printing. People arent complaining about getting zero interest on their current savings. Romney was right- 47% of the people are pretty much married to the dole, and its rising.

But if the economy grew, so would government spending and the debt would only grow larger. Its going to take a philosophical revolution to change anything.

That's a very good response Herb. Txs

I agree. Unfortunately, this is WAAAAAAAY over the head of your average American. We are subject to institutional programming that drives us, unconsciously, toward violent tribalism. A vast majority seem helpless against it.

Parents are told, indirectly, to teach their children to be kind - while the system gets ready to absorb those children so that they can go over to Afghanistan to guard poppy fields and blow up weddings. All...so we can be "safe", of course.

There are many times I have thought 'the last straw' had been reached, and that we were going to collapse. But Iook out the window and there are pleasant streets, people going about their business, stores open.

I think that we will just keep muddling along. The socialists will continue to grab and redistribute our wealth, our freedoms will continue to gradually erode (though there are some successful pushbacks happening), but there is So Much of what we have that it will take another generation or so of government irresponsibility to deplete that reservoir. And, during that time, more technology will be produced that may make socialism irrelevant.

Jan

Thank you for the mention of the movie Alongside Night. I had not heard of it. Now...I think I will read the novel and then maybe see the movie.

Jan

but it will not be discarded as all other currencies are even today. I just believe that the American public even those on the public dole will not want to give up the freedoms that they have at this time, so they will become our allies.

What's also needed is a restructuring of government, where the government only acts on its legitimate roles, and stays out of being Santa. That means, eliminating all the agencies engaged in all forms of welfare and subsidies, health care, education, social issues (like marriage), etc., and focusing on defense, law enforcement, the judiciary. We can eliminate welfare with a homestead act 2.0, and subsidies with a clear NO. That's a start.

If we were to grow, like China claims to have done, for a few years, the debt would be payable. What's needed now is exceptional economic growth.

I think the Republic is dead and irretrievable. How far off total collapse is, is debatable.

Our economy is so interwoven and complex that the slightest hiccup can send us into that spiral down the porcelain throne. We saw it happen to a degree on 9/11, but our economic situation has worsened exponentially and fundamentally since then. Even the Fed has admitted that there is little to backstop another calamity from becoming the one that brings down the system. Economically, the IMF still hasn't released the news that they expect to redo the reserve currency of the world, which would bring shockwaves to the US economy in terms of currency uselessness. The major economies of the world (China, EU, US) are holding on by their fingernails as government regulations slams down the hammer. I think it is only a matter of time before it is no longer a choice to Shrug.

Agreed. The real question is will the recovery be based on those values - or will the country wallow in collectivism and looting. Remember, "Atlas Shrugged" never saw the end - it just deals with the collapse.

Ideas have power. In the hierarchy of values, life is the first premise. Stop all killing, and all the rationalizations that excuse killing. Stop all notions of conquest, "winning" through force. Recognize hatred and its panoply of negative emotions as a cancer in the human psyche. Revenge and retribution accelerate that everyone loses.

The new age of Reason needs this meme: In the long view, no one wins unless everyone wins. Violence is not a winning strategy. It is a remnant of our animal past and a temporary aberration. It's a by-product of range-of-the-moment reactions. Reason is our next evolutionary step. The handbook has been written.

Here's an idea: People always want to be good and do the right thing, to be heroic. They're just misled by the wrong goals and methods, and fed the wrong programs, for what constitutes good. Simple fix -- always test actions against this standard: Is what I am doing good for everyone, not just for me?

The truly heroic is the voluntary self-restraint from inflicting violence, not how much damage one can impose. Real heroes weigh every choice against the future of humankind. Every individual counts.

The aspect of our situation that depresses me is that the majority of the sheeple that decides Presidential elections are just looking for unearned benefits. There is no way that Republicans can win the White House when they're going up against Santa Claus, who will just give you everything you want. The National Debt Clock website shows that there are more people receiving benefits from the government (155 million) than there are people paying income taxes (110 million).

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty should be changed from "huddle masses yearning to breathe free" to "befuddled asses yearning to receive freebies".

thats now. something will happen that will weaken the US dollar and it will fall like every other fiat currency eventually falls.

Hope springs eternal.