What if Galt's Gulch was visible?

Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 5 months ago to The Gulch: General
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What if we did set up our own Galts Gulch? We welcomed the best and the brightest and the hardest workers from all walks of life. Instead of being hidden in a valley, however, it is out in plain site. A state inside the US for example that succeeds from the union. Would we have to build a wall? Would the Federal government allow us to exist? Would neighboring States cause problems?


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  • Posted by gcarl615 8 years, 5 months ago
    First of all "gulchites" are or will be persecuted as domestic terrorists by the Govmint at all levels. They will use the force of the gun to make us cease to exist. So the answers to the questions are, yes,no and absolutely. How dare you take your energy, passion, intelligence and ability to produce away from us! It does after all it belongs to us.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 5 months ago
      I wonder if they would allow us to operate long enough so they had something to take? In a Gulch I would expect a lot of innovation. Would the Feds let us to operate to try and ake advantage of us?
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 5 months ago
        "Would the Feds let us to operate to try and ake advantage of us?"
        In my fantasy narrative of it, traditional states thinking they're taking advantage of us has to be a component of it at first. We live in the time of the nation state, and I imagine a Gulch being something different from a traditional nation state. It would be absurd to expect the nations of earth to give us stateless space to experiment in. It's outside the current paradigm.

        If you accept that every land on earth (except Antarctica) is part of some nation state, then someone is responsible (under the current paradigm) for protecting and administering that space. If we start a community there, it's not unreasonable for citizens of nations to argue they're paying taxes for protection against crime and foreign armies. They'll say we're getting the benefits of their armies even if we never call them to protect us. They'll say we siphon off their most productive citizens and expect them to pay for a criminal justice system to deal with their worst citizens. I do not agree with those arguments, but we have to accept they are reasonable and not just the product of some Mouch-esque caricature of evil looting. The world isn't that simple. In short, we have to work with gov'ts and not demonize them.

        At some point, though, there will be little tests. Someone is accused of treason for revealing illegal activity by officials in their state of origin, and that state wants to extradite him. If the Gulch leaders privately tell them no and work with other gov'ts and stakeholders to find a face-saving solution where the govt "agrees" to let our justice system handle him, we've won a huge victory. That has to come when the Gulch is a significant trading partner. A real army could easily defeat the Gulch's security forces and citizen militia, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory for the nation states, b/c defeating them militarily won't force Atlas to keep holding up the world creating new cancer therapies, entertainment, vehicle designs, etc. So we are left alone, and the nations can keep their face-saving narratives. Nation states still appear sovereign, but there's a new a seat at the table, at least for a little corner of the world, showing another way, making things kids want to emulate, investors want to fund, and things people want to buy.

        People living at the time don't always realize the significance. But as you cross the border and see there's no traditional customs/immigration and you detect a selfish and cheerful passion for protecting a sacred idea in the young guard who helps people scan their passports, you realize you're entering something special, different from the rest of the world.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 5 months ago
          Yes . Unless we develop weaponry so far advanced we wouldn't stand a chance against existing armies. I'm still wondering how we would handle newcomers or immigration. As Zen points out the literary Gulch was invitation only. Could we get away with that? If so, how do we keep people out?
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 5 months ago
            "how do we keep people out?"
            Ideally, they wouldn't offer any handouts and they wouldn't care who visited. In practice this leads to problems that I don't have answers for. In my fantasy scenario above, there's a checkpoint next to the big dollar sign at the border where they scan passports to have records of who visited, but they don't turn anyone away.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 5 months ago
    I think it will happen.

    In my dream scenario, it starts as a deal for startup companies with immigration issues b/c their management teams are of different nationalities. So investors work out a deal with some country to get favorable tax and immigration treatment for their little incubator / accelerator. The isolation actually helps the kids focus, and some of them have successful exits. Many of the kids get married and go back to their country of origin, but some stay. It draws some people who want to retire in Gulch. Businesses providing everyday services crop up to serve the population that has grown way beyond a few entrepreneurial kids and their mentors. The investors have ties to the gov'ts of the world and use them to help the community retain its autonomy.

    In this rosy scenario, the Gulch is never hidden. It's a rosy unlikely scenario, but as it gets easier to move to inhospitable places like the arctic, the ocean, or outer space, people will go there, and I think at least one of them will beat the odds and starts something new and amazing.
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