Well he was a mob lawyer so we should trust everything he says, right? He's an idiot. I've talked with him in person and even his security guys had trouble keeping a straight face with the answer he gave.
A business associate of mine is black and her husband is white. They lived in Carson City. They were being threatened by the Klan. The cops couldn't do anything and neither could the FBI because nothing had yet been done to them. She knew what I was and thought I could help. I was at a meeting and Reid was there, so I told him the story and asked if he could help. He said call the FBI. Ass hat!!
Since the intelligent folks of Nevada reelected him in 2012, I choose not to spend a dime of my hard earned cash in Nevada and have encouraged my family and friends to do likewise.
He's a politician which by most people's definition makes him nothing but a liar. Therefore if you basically believe the opposite of everything he says you are going to be pretty close most of the time.
I said it before that this man if frightening. He has power and is more interested in keeping that power and furthering his ideology than he is in helping ordinary people.
Its the narrow minded comments in this thread that make me think the Virtual Gultch is nothing more than blinded group thinkers who base arguments off nothing more than the O'Reily Factor.
it's O'Reilly and I don't watch it. You don't think a public figure like Harry Reid, whose actions are in the open for the most part can be found lacking by individuals? Individuals in a virtual gulch?
But you sure know how to spell it. Forgive me for my errant typo. I'm not arguing in favor of or against Reid, I am simply pointing out the lopsided, media influenced group think that doesn't actually back up their immediate judgement with any element of statistical proof. Are you of the opinion that Boehner, McConnell, Cantor, and the other nay say conservatives are in some way proving better in their actions? My argument here has more to do with the comments here being quite the antithesis to an Objective philosophy. Our government is clearly a disaster right now, but to pin the blame entirely on one person only proves to me that many of us still have our heads stuck in the sand.
I am not defending the Republicans. Harry Reid said something offensive and ridiculous. We have to point these things out as they happen. We can't go down the list of every political idiot on every post. Not sure how this is inconsistent with objectivism???
Agreed, and what you've now written isn't necessarily inconsistent.
My initial comments were based on what I read in this thread which didn't provide a single shred of fact to make claim that what Reid is saying is so utterly offensive. All I read was garbage that one can find on any ignorant facebook post, or I hate to say it, any narrow minded extremist right-wing website.
My follow up comments, were 1) to defend myself from those who claim to be objective, and 2) to ask for a real conversation about comments such as these. My bringing up of other politicians was simply to point out that Reid isn't the only one saying things that can be considered ridiculous, and I wanted to hear something more educated that "he's an idiot" or "I didn't know the mob hired him". Comments like these are inflammatory and irrelevant and completely discredit the entire Ayn Rand philosophy.
Your use of the term "narrow minded extremist right-wing..." really shows your true colors. Please continue to speak in such vague anti-concepts,( http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/anti-c... ) as it really gives us a better idea of your programming, and thusly, the areas where you refuse to think. Examples: 1. Narrow minded. I presume one uses that term as a reflection of the common labels, open mind vs. closed mind. If that is so, then I would argue, in the same line of thought of Ayn Rand, that both states are a reflection of the same condition of mind; inactive. A closed mind refuses to study new evidence and proceeds illogically, based on a static condition of knowledge; it is a refusal to grow, learn, experience or understand more. An open mind would be likened to a trash receptacle on the street, just waiting for any passer-by to deposit his little tidbit which is then mixed in with a jumbled mess of others oddities; it is a refusal to judge, discriminate, choose, and integrate ideas. Both conditions stem from a refusal to think. The antithesis to those would be an active mind, constantly judging everything and everyone, for the purpose of a non-contradictory, consciously chosen, system of thought. 2. When you denounce 'extremism', you do so as an endorsement of compromise and 'the middle ground.' Can there be compromise between food and poison or property owner and burglar? A thing is either good or bad, promoting life or death. Anything less than 'extreme' good, is a furtherance of evil. So since extremism is bad, maybe food with just a little poison might be ok. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/compro... 3. Right-wing. A floating label that can be applied with the same ease as the first two, for the purpose of discrediting its carrier; and with no strict definition, can be applied to anyone ranging the gamut from an anarchist to Mitt Romney or John McCain. It is simply media hyperbole; and therefore, carries very little weight around here.
I know you preceded that statement with, "I hate to say it"; but you said it. Just a little food for thought. One must choose their words and what they mean very carefully around here.
Harry Reid is so far into the left field that to analyze what he says is giving him way too much credit. There are plenty of other enemies of the state and civilization whose actions and words need to be analyzed, but spending this effort on Reid is like seriously analyzing the actions of a mediocre court jester.
I don't live under a rock, kypsul. There are hundreds of posts on this site. Plenty of posts about the legislators you name. This is an article about Reid, however. As well, some comments are made by people who live(d) in Nevada. Again, fully capable individuals for discerning the actions of a very public figure. The posts in the Gulch come from all sorts of sources. Often the same issue is posted from different sources so readers can compare information. Objectivists produce in this gulch but are not exclusive. The only criteria for participating is you've come in because you've seen or are interested in seeing the movies. Many have not read AS until they've been here awhile. Your assumption "...the lopsided, media influenced group..." is incorrect, in my opinion. Most in here are well read. Check your premise
I know many here are well read, it's partly why I am on this site in the first place. I've also read the books, AS, Fountain Head, and Anthem and I respect your comments.
However, my comments are specifically about the comments in this thread, not necessarily whether or not Reid is right in his statement. So I am questioning the quality of the comments as they seem to be nothing more than a spewing of venom rather than an actual discussion of facts. For example, instead of name calling such as "he's an idiot" or "Ass Hat" maybe we discuss why Reid felt he could say such a generalizing statement. Does he have evidence to back that up? If so what is it, does it prove his argument, or does it prove the contrary?
Maybe I jumped the gun on questioning my place in the Virtual Gutch, as I have not been able to read every thread as of yet; however, the email I have today from the Gulch provides me with exactly 5 comment threads, all of which seem highly lopsided and extreme right wing conservative. Ultimately, this is the thread I clicked on, and it is far from objective.
Why Reid felt he could say such a generalizing statement? Here is one why: Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals under tactics: 5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."
so you see my post about the woman living off the grid and fighting with city authorities as conservative leaning? lol You'll be happy to know that my conservative friends on this site will be the first to tell you that they do not consider me a good conservative
Most comments in the Gulch tend toward the conservative end of the spectrum because conservatives tend to protect and value freedom more than liberals do. Leftists tend to want an oligarchy to call all the shots. IMO conservatives are far more likely to be objective than liberals.
"Are you of the opinion that Boehner, McConnell, Cantor, and the other nay say conservatives are in some way proving better in their actions?"
Yes. Not a single one of them voted for Øbamacare.
While most republicans and the party do suck, anyone who thinks they suck as much or more than democrats is either grossly misinformed or is an enemy of freedom.
You argue just like a democratic operative. You don't deal in logic and facts, but innuendo and ad hominem attacks. You accuse everyone of group think. You divert the issue by talking about Boehner, McConnell, Cantor. You suggest that Reid is not the source of all the US's problems, but no one said that.
You could teach the Jay Carney school on how to give a press conference.
Actually, you're proving my point to be honest. A democratic operative? Seriously? There are so many flaws with what you have written here, but to quickly clarify for you: 1) I am no democrat, and I am no republican, 2) If I am to listen to you, I am clearly correct in my assertions that this is a conservative republican website, 3) and finally, I did not divert the argument in any way, I asked a question based on a comment posed to me. If you actually read what I've written, and stop plucking keywords and fragmented sentences, you'll see that what I am trying to do is discuss Reid's actual comments, and I am asking for actual statistical information that would warrant the others to pass judgement upon those who disagree with them.
You prove my point you don't discuss facts you avoid the issue being discussed. You are wrong about this site being a conservative republican website.
Since you are suggesting that Reid did not say them and people have provided evidence, the burden is on you to back you statement with some evidence. Again you have avoided the issue.
Real people have come forward and told their stories. They make up the statistics. Their stories are compelling but Harry Reid has chosen to ignore them because of his ideology. Why would you ask for statistics when you can listen to the actual people who are having their lives turned upside down as a result of this law?
maybe I don't understand what you're asking-but embedded in the article is video of Reid making the comments. Why do we have to get into his head why he lied. It's obvious. There are overwhelming stories from people who actually supported the ACA and are denied coverage, forced to change doctors and hospitals, are put into situations where they pay so much more now under the exchanges. Do you expect on this thread that it is the responsibility of the poster and commenters to go find all of these cases (which many are already posted in here) and prove Reid wrong? It is Reid's burden of proof in making his statement. Please note he does not cite one shred of evidence for HIS claim.
How do you come to the conclusion that this is a conservative/republican site?
Is it because those here have a passion for freedom? The fact that you might equate that with the R party might tell you something about the two parties.
That most here find the conduct/words/actions of HR despicable is a function of our view of the world compared to his.
I'm surprised you've received so much flak for your comment. When someone new comes in I would be glad to hear what their perception of our gulch is, and one as critical as yours should definitely be voiced, not silenced.
In any case I would say that many people here have been talking to each other for awhile and we tend to skip a lot of the formalities. Personally I can see your point of view, a lot of the comments on this website come off as knee jerk right wing. Though after reading through them you'll tend to see the rational analysis coming out after a disagreement.
By the way, I'm not sure what the purpose of your comment was, maybe to provoke a response with evidence to the contrary of your statement? If so, you shouldn't draw the line between you and everyone else here, you should voice your concerns in a manner that restates the fact that you are here because you value the same things we do.
Have you read any of the other topics on this site? All of your posts are in this thread.
It's not narrow mindedness that causes most of these comments to be in the same vein, it is merely observation.
If you had read anything outside of this one thread, you surely would have seen that few here could be considered as water carriers, and certainly not of Bill O.
What are you talking about? The Senate Majority leader has just issued a blanket statement claiming that anyone who claims to have been adversely affected by Obamacare is lying. Are you okay with that statement? What does Bill O'Reilly have to do with it?
Again, I am commenting about the comments in this thread...I'm not sure how I haven't made that clear, but maybe reread my original post?
If you want to push the website that you watched this video on, then I would have to say the statistics are more in Reid's favor than those that are not. However, I rarely agree with any sort of blanket statement or generalization, because any policy change will inherently create problems for some, while benefiting others. Check the statistics - real statistics, not lopsided media vitriol. Simply calling Reid an "idiot" doesn't really solve anything, and frankly makes the name caller equally as idiotic. Honestly, for every right-winged website posted against "Obamacare" the same can be found on the left countering the argument. So let's start talking facts instead of headlines. Oh and MAYBE, just MAYBE stop calling people names as that really doesn't get us anywhere.
"... I would have to say the statistics are more in Reid's favor than those that are not."
If you don't want to be called a left wing operative then stop acting like one. Nobody is pushing any website other than this one. I personally don't know of any O'Reilly fans in the Gulch. Øbamacare represents government tyranny. It has been forced upon us at gunpoint. I don't give a hoot if you like it, I don't like anyone pointing a gun at my head and telling me what to do. It is as un-American as Vladimir Putin.
Harry Reid called people suffering from cancer and other serious illnesses liars. That type of name calling should stop. People commenting on this thread are blowing off a little steam and stating their opinions. I have nothing against that. It isn't propaganda to say that Obamacare is a disaster. Many of the sign up numbers have been proven to be false. People I know have lost insurance they liked. these are not minor inconveniences. This law has to be repealed.
Fair enough, and that's your opinion. However, as I've already stated, if we are to use the media to as proof of fact, then I can provide you all with an equal number of "reports" that completely tell a different story. Am I to believe that republican media is somehow telling the truth, while the democratic media is completely lying? Find the stats. Where do you have proof that the sign up numbers are false? The media, or the actual data from a real data source? It is your opinion that "Obamacare" is a disaster; however, others have benefited already from it. So blowing off steam, sure, but inflaming issues and accusing people of being "spies" (see dbhalling post) really makes you all out to be ignorant bullies who have nothing more than propaganda to work with. My original post was questioning exactly that, "the Virtual Gulch" doesn't really come close to the vision of the "Gulch"
Meanwhile, I'm going to leave you all to your opinions as I've just come home from a 12 hour over night shift (spying on republicans cause they're so interesting), and I need to get some rest. You all enjoy your opinions and be sure never to duscuss anything other than your opinions, I'll be sure to keep mine to myself, as opinions, in this thread at least, are clearly only welcome if you're anti-everything that's not republican.
One has a very hard time getting the facts when the ones reporting them keep changing what was reported and admit they were wrong in the initial report. Do you have access to statistics more accurate than those reported by the Secretary of HHS, who admitted they were wrong?
In my opinion calling everyone here "ignorant bullies who have nothing more than propaganda to work with" would be name calling. Would that be sort of a pot and kettle thing?
It is not an opinion it is a fact. This law has been a colossal mess from the start. The problems with the website are just a side show. I have listened to and talked to many who have been adversely affected. Sign up numbers have been disappointing according to the White House. The numbers just don't add up and the tax payer is on the hook for this monster. Get some rest.
I am the one who called him an ass hat. My friends life was threatened and she was in hiding. The authorities, which she had contacted and that was made clear to the senator, could do nothing because at that point is was a threat, she nor her husband had yet been attacked. After clearly explaining all this to the senator he made a flippant remark and left. That is a fact. So my name calling stands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgHxFNFWl...
"It is not true that Henry Rearden has vanished! In fact he was killed in an automobile accident. No! He's still at work! No, wait...!"
"It is not true that civil war has broken out among the States!"
"Don't believe unpatriotic rumors about Ragnar Danneskjöld attacking a steel mill on the coast of Maine!"
And so forth and so on, to make one vomit.
ahem...
My initial comments were based on what I read in this thread which didn't provide a single shred of fact to make claim that what Reid is saying is so utterly offensive. All I read was garbage that one can find on any ignorant facebook post, or I hate to say it, any narrow minded extremist right-wing website.
My follow up comments, were 1) to defend myself from those who claim to be objective, and 2) to ask for a real conversation about comments such as these. My bringing up of other politicians was simply to point out that Reid isn't the only one saying things that can be considered ridiculous, and I wanted to hear something more educated that "he's an idiot" or "I didn't know the mob hired him". Comments like these are inflammatory and irrelevant and completely discredit the entire Ayn Rand philosophy.
Examples:
1. Narrow minded. I presume one uses that term as a reflection of the common labels, open mind vs. closed mind. If that is so, then I would argue, in the same line of thought of Ayn Rand, that both states are a reflection of the same condition of mind; inactive. A closed mind refuses to study new evidence and proceeds illogically, based on a static condition of knowledge; it is a refusal to grow, learn, experience or understand more. An open mind would be likened to a trash receptacle on the street, just waiting for any passer-by to deposit his little tidbit which is then mixed in with a jumbled mess of others oddities; it is a refusal to judge, discriminate, choose, and integrate ideas. Both conditions stem from a refusal to think. The antithesis to those would be an active mind, constantly judging everything and everyone, for the purpose of a non-contradictory, consciously chosen, system of thought.
2. When you denounce 'extremism', you do so as an endorsement of compromise and 'the middle ground.' Can there be compromise between food and poison or property owner and burglar? A thing is either good or bad, promoting life or death. Anything less than 'extreme' good, is a furtherance of evil. So since extremism is bad, maybe food with just a little poison might be ok.
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/compro...
3. Right-wing. A floating label that can be applied with the same ease as the first two, for the purpose of discrediting its carrier; and with no strict definition, can be applied to anyone ranging the gamut from an anarchist to Mitt Romney or John McCain. It is simply media hyperbole; and therefore, carries very little weight around here.
I know you preceded that statement with, "I hate to say it"; but you said it. Just a little food for thought. One must choose their words and what they mean very carefully around here.
Harry Reid is so far into the left field that to analyze what he says is giving him way too much credit. There are plenty of other enemies of the state and civilization whose actions and words need to be analyzed, but spending this effort on Reid is like seriously analyzing the actions of a mediocre court jester.
There are hundreds of posts on this site. Plenty of posts about the legislators you name. This is an article about Reid, however. As well, some comments are made by people who live(d) in Nevada. Again, fully capable individuals for discerning the actions of a very public figure. The posts in the Gulch come from all sorts of sources. Often the same issue is posted from different sources so readers can compare information. Objectivists produce in this gulch but are not exclusive. The only criteria for participating is you've come in because you've seen or are interested in seeing the movies. Many have not read AS until they've been here awhile. Your assumption "...the lopsided, media influenced group..." is incorrect, in my opinion. Most in here are well read. Check your premise
However, my comments are specifically about the comments in this thread, not necessarily whether or not Reid is right in his statement. So I am questioning the quality of the comments as they seem to be nothing more than a spewing of venom rather than an actual discussion of facts. For example, instead of name calling such as "he's an idiot" or "Ass Hat" maybe we discuss why Reid felt he could say such a generalizing statement. Does he have evidence to back that up? If so what is it, does it prove his argument, or does it prove the contrary?
Maybe I jumped the gun on questioning my place in the Virtual Gutch, as I have not been able to read every thread as of yet; however, the email I have today from the Gulch provides me with exactly 5 comment threads, all of which seem highly lopsided and extreme right wing conservative. Ultimately, this is the thread I clicked on, and it is far from objective.
Yes. Not a single one of them voted for Øbamacare.
While most republicans and the party do suck, anyone who thinks they suck as much or more than democrats is either grossly misinformed or is an enemy of freedom.
You could teach the Jay Carney school on how to give a press conference.
Since you are suggesting that Reid did not say them and people have provided evidence, the burden is on you to back you statement with some evidence. Again you have avoided the issue.
Is it because those here have a passion for freedom? The fact that you might equate that with the R party might tell you something about the two parties.
That most here find the conduct/words/actions of HR despicable is a function of our view of the world compared to his.
In any case I would say that many people here have been talking to each other for awhile and we tend to skip a lot of the formalities. Personally I can see your point of view, a lot of the comments on this website come off as knee jerk right wing. Though after reading through them you'll tend to see the rational analysis coming out after a disagreement.
By the way, I'm not sure what the purpose of your comment was, maybe to provoke a response with evidence to the contrary of your statement? If so, you shouldn't draw the line between you and everyone else here, you should voice your concerns in a manner that restates the fact that you are here because you value the same things we do.
Welcome to the site. Good luck.
It's not narrow mindedness that causes most of these comments to be in the same vein, it is merely observation.
If you had read anything outside of this one thread, you surely would have seen that few here could be considered as water carriers, and certainly not of Bill O.
If you want to push the website that you watched this video on, then I would have to say the statistics are more in Reid's favor than those that are not. However, I rarely agree with any sort of blanket statement or generalization, because any policy change will inherently create problems for some, while benefiting others. Check the statistics - real statistics, not lopsided media vitriol. Simply calling Reid an "idiot" doesn't really solve anything, and frankly makes the name caller equally as idiotic. Honestly, for every right-winged website posted against "Obamacare" the same can be found on the left countering the argument. So let's start talking facts instead of headlines. Oh and MAYBE, just MAYBE stop calling people names as that really doesn't get us anywhere.
If you don't want to be called a left wing operative then stop acting like one. Nobody is pushing any website other than this one. I personally don't know of any O'Reilly fans in the Gulch. Øbamacare represents government tyranny. It has been forced upon us at gunpoint. I don't give a hoot if you like it, I don't like anyone pointing a gun at my head and telling me what to do. It is as un-American as Vladimir Putin.
Go home commie.
Meanwhile, I'm going to leave you all to your opinions as I've just come home from a 12 hour over night shift (spying on republicans cause they're so interesting), and I need to get some rest. You all enjoy your opinions and be sure never to duscuss anything other than your opinions, I'll be sure to keep mine to myself, as opinions, in this thread at least, are clearly only welcome if you're anti-everything that's not republican.
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/art...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonk...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/07/us/pol...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/14/nyregi...