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EFF has some good news

Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 4 months ago to Legislation
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Good news: EFF reports that it is now legal to jailbreak the devices you own (including your car). https://supporters.eff.org/civicrm/ma...
Brief quote from article
"The new rules for exemptions to copyright's DRM-circumvention laws were issued today, and the Librarian of Congress has granted much of what EFF asked for over the course of months of extensive briefs and hearings. The exemptions we requested—ripping DVDs and Blurays for making fair use remixes and analysis; preserving video games and running multiplayer servers after publishers have abandoned them; jailbreaking cell phones, tablets, and other portable computing devices to run third party software; and security research and modification and repairs on cars—have each been accepted, subject to some important caveats."

Jan
SOURCE URL: https://supporters.eff.org/civicrm/mailing/view?reset=1&id=1251


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  • Posted by samrigel 8 years, 4 months ago
    Why didn't they get into Microsoft's crap. If you bought a DVD to install Windows 7 on your computer and then a month later your computer takes a dump. You cannot use the copy of Windows 7 you bought to install on a new computer. Microsoft won't allow that. Been there and tried to do that. Microsoft's reason --- Oh its a new computer and the license cannot be transferred from the old to the new computer. Me - but I bought the license. MS - and you used it on the original computer. Conclusion - once installed the computer owns the license and not the bloke that bought the license. Weird.
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    • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 4 months ago
      One of the many reasons I've been a Mac user for the last 20 years. I've routinely switched from one machine to another, without a hint of any restrictions. Apple is just happy you bought their machine, but that's the headache of having the owner of the hardware and operating system being two separate firms.
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    • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 4 months ago
      I'm sorry that happened to you but there was a way around it. If Windows is installed on a PC that buys the farm, say the hard drive crashed - cuz that's the most common, you are entitled to reinstall that copy of windows onto the repaired PC (new hard drive). Even if your motherboard got fried I think you're allowed to reinstall on the repaired machine. If they say No to that one then hang up and then call them back and say you're trying to reinstall onto a new hard drive and they will give you a new key. Or at least they're supposed to.

      I also have to ask this, why didn't your new computer already have Win 7 on it? Perhaps you built it yourself?
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      • Posted by stargeezer 8 years, 4 months ago
        I've replaced motherboards before and a call into MS support is all that's required. They give you a code that unlocks the key "one shot" and you are back in business. Changing hard drives doesn't cause any issue since the CPU ID is what win7 checks for.

        I'm not any kind of MS fan, but I've always found them helpful with this particular problem.
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      • Posted by samrigel 8 years, 4 months ago
        My new computer didn't have Windows 7 on because I build all of my computers rather than buy them. That way I get the video, sound, harddrive etc. that I want and not what is selling. On all computers there is a chip on the Motherboard that logs and maintains the serial and info on the OS that is installed. Linux is the only exception to this (doesn't use the chip) that I know of. Since Linux flavors are free. (Not Redhat) I did get around it but seeing how cleverness can sometimes get you in trouble --- enough said!
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        • Posted by Timelord 8 years, 4 months ago
          Yup, I build all of mine, too. But as stargeezer pointed out, MS should have given you a new key. I think I remember, though, that win 7 uses more than just the CPU ID to determine if hardware has changed.
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      • Posted by samrigel 8 years, 4 months ago
        As a side note I no longer use Windows. I only use Ubuntu a flavor of Linux. Currently I am using and enjoying version 14.04 LTS. So problems associated with Microsoft and Apple I no longer need to deal with.
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        • Posted by InfamousEric 8 years, 4 months ago
          I have 7 machines in my home, 5 of which run Linux, 2 windows.

          Linux is great, but the only problem I have is there is a very long pause time when sending a document to print over the network, and I can't access my surveillance camera admin.
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          • Posted by samrigel 8 years, 4 months ago
            I have an old Vista laptop that my son gave me that I use for my cameras. I have not revisited the Linux use of camera but perhaps I will soon just to get rid of the Vista machine. You could try Zoneminder for your cameras but I didn't find it as good as Blue Iris and it is way more difficult to setup. I print directly on USB so I cannot say anything about network printing.
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            • Posted by InfamousEric 8 years, 4 months ago
              I've looked at Zoneminder, but I really didn't want to have to build my own machine. Not that I can't, I've built all the others.

              It was just more cost effective for me to get a pre-made system.
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              • Posted by samrigel 8 years, 4 months ago
                Agreed, you don't built a machine to save money, you built a machine to put in it what you want in it. If you have a Windows machine you can dedicate take a look at Blue Iris, for $50 you can't go wrong. Very easy to setup as well.
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    • Posted by IndianaGary 8 years, 4 months ago
      Never had a problem moving a license from one computer to another. I've rebuilt computers, sometimes a couple of times a year, with new drives, new motherboards, etc, and only once had to go through reactivation with Windows 7 and later.
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  • Posted by davidmcnab 8 years, 4 months ago
    This is actually a divisive area for the Gulch population.

    At stake are two contradictory principles of property rights: the physical property rights of the purchaser, versus the intellectual property rights of the publishers and devices.

    The first principle rests on the axiom that when you buy a product, you automatically have the right to do whatever you want with it, as long as you're not pirating intellectual property out to anyone else.

    The second principle is based on the argument that intellectual property rights take precedence, and that the "sale" of a device or medium such as a DVD is in fact just a granting of very limited rights of possession, and does not constitute "ownership".

    Under this latter argument, when you buy a cellphone, you have the right to smash it to pieces with a sledgehammer, you have the right to use it to make calls and run a limited set of apps, but you do not have the right to use it beyond the intentions of the manufacturer, because as part of your purchase, you have agreed to uphold the intellectual property rights of the manufacturer.

    There are those in the Gulch here who would argue vehemently for the latter principle, and complain that the EFF are in fact a bunch of looters.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 4 months ago
      The "second principle" is complete BS. An inventor's or composer's right extends ONLY to not having copies made (beyond fair use) or public performances occur without his permission. Once I buy my copy it is mine to do with as I please, except those two things.
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      • Posted by davidmcnab 8 years, 4 months ago
        For some time, courts have been holding that to use a device implies acceptance of the license agreement for whatever embedded software it contains, and therefore to use a device contrary to this license agreement is a breach of copyright.
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        • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 4 months ago
          And they're often wrong about that, not only morally but legally. It's a basic principle of law that if I buy something without a written agreement, the seller isn't entitled to later add conditions -- and both "shrinkwrap" and "clickwrap" licenses violate that principle, unless the entire license is printed where I can see it before I pay the money and walk out the door with the package.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
            Agreed. The second illegal act is selling insurance without a license. Store clerks who push insuring wheels on a set of luggage or the screen on a computer are a. admitting it's probably faulty and b.violating licensing laws required of insurance agents in this case liability insurance. If it came down to it one could make that an add on charge and start another tort go round. In this case I wouldn't complain as it's pandemic and leads to substandard manufacturing and then higher insurance rates.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 4 months ago
      While I agree with jdg, Thoritsu and others who are in favor of this decision (obviously, or I would not have started this thread), I would think it would be less divisive to the members of the Gulch in that the changes were made were for personal use not as a commercial product: I get to jailbreak my phone; I get to fix my car.

      Jan
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      • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 4 months ago
        One of Microsoft's bogus IP claims that really bugs me is, they sell separate "Home" and "Office" editions of Windows, then pretend that anyone who buys the "Home" version and installs it in an office is somehow stealing from them. No I'm not, if it's only on one computer per purchased copy.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 4 months ago
          Being an MS admin for 20 years+ now, I'm with you. Really all the "Home" versions are are gimped (no pun intended) versions of the Office edition - MS disables advanced networking, encryption, and other stuff. It isn't a separate version at all.

          Theoretically, however, Apple's OS licensing of allowing 5 installs per key for a mere $40 has really put a damper on Microsoft's ongoing Windows sales (couldn't possibly have had to do with their crappy desktop on Windows 8) and with Windows 10 you'll be able to install on multiple devices with the same key - just like how they opened up Office.

          I'll believe it when i see it. I have hated Microsoft's licensing policies ever since they let their lawyers define the terms - which was a very long time ago.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 4 months ago
    Very pleased about this!

    If this had gone the other way, software developers would have surely prohibited add-ons and required managed IT.

    I have tweaked a couple of cars ECUs. Also detest having to watch advertisements when I buy a DVD/BlueRay, Rip/Edit. Go Makers!
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 4 months ago
    Very cool. Despite the obvious problems and setback, I see the long-term arc of the world as moving toward increased liberty. This is a nice little example.
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 4 months ago
      Yes, the idea that you were not allowed to repair your own car any more was absurd. Even though this process seems to be rather labor-intensive, I think it changes the default in the direction of letting you dink with things for your own use.

      Jan
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 4 months ago
        In the Innovator's Dilemma it talks about how new technologies are integrated but become more modularized as they become mature. The product itself becomes commoditizes and the differentiation/innovation is in the modules. So maybe market forces will drive car makers to make the parts replaceable or at least user-servicable.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
        The notion ha ha of making cars that you cannot repair on your own is pure salesmanship. IT gets you back into the building where the idea of trading permeates the walls, ceiling floor and atmosphere.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 8 years, 4 months ago
    This is an interesting discussion with many good points back and forth. I gave thumbs up on many pro and con. But everyone is just stating opinions, nothing is really rigorous or principled. Intellectual property law does not have a solid, objective basis. We inherit too many ideas from experience with land, which must be rival and exclusive. But my making a copy of a program does not prevent you having your own copy. So, we have "copy rights" i.e., the right to copy. However, they, too, derived originally from royal grants, like the right to colonize Delaware (without actually consulting the people already living there....), so it was a mixed-premise attempt at an important step forward.

    It needs to be cleared up and put on a rational-empirical basis.

    What happens when pharmaceutical companies copyright your genes?
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 4 months ago
      Intellectual property law does not have a solid, objective basis in part because “intellectual property” is itself a slippery and ill-defined concept. Patents are not copyrights and copyrights are not trademarks. Each of these three has a distinct relationship to the concept of ownership, and the validity of any one of these as a form of property does not imply the validity of any of the others. Many people (myself included) consider certain forms of “intellectual property” to be legitimate, and other forms not so.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
    Being a total Mr. Fixit cripple, I am unaffected, but my son, who was able to fix anything from the age of 7 on, will appreciate this. I think that there is a fixit gene and you're either born with it or not. I put down the age of 7 for my son because it was the first time I noticed his ability after he fixed a broken cassette recorder. Who knows what he could do at age 2? I always envied you fixit types, but I consoled myself by saying, well, I'll bet they can't do some things I can do. I haven't quite figured what that could be as yet.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 4 months ago
    this seems to be in english, but its import just zings over me
    in the stratosphere ... is there a translation available, Jan? -- j
    .
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    • Posted by $ 8 years, 4 months ago
      When you buy a Windows version, you get two things: a download or disk with the product on it and a license key (string of letters and numbers) that is now registered to you. If your computer dies, you are supposed to be able to reuse the disk or to get another copy of that same version, as long as you have a copy of the license key.

      It is not just MS that does this - we used a Pervasive db for many years, and it worked the same way (but if our customer had lost the license key they had to re-buy the product).

      (We just keep track of our customers and reload our software on their new computer...but they have to have a copy of their data! Most of our medical facilities are Very Bad about doing backups and as often as not, the data is lost. That means: your past medical record is wiped out of existence.)

      Jan
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      • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 4 months ago
        ummmmm ... like my siamesing 2 computers for backup
        and also making cd copies of these books which I am
        co-editing-writing? . and, somehow, MS did not allow
        your maneuvers to help customers get back on their feet? -- j
        .
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        • Posted by $ 8 years, 4 months ago
          We had no problems with MS on that - in case of major disaster (such as Katrina) we told our customers (even the ones who were not on support) to go out and buy a new PC (because their offices had been destroyed) and we would reinstall SL on it and copy in their most recent backup of their database. The new PC came with a copy of Windows (but often they lacked a copy of their backup and had to start from scratch). It is when a more normal breakdown occurs that we have discussions over the licenses of MS and Pervasive.

          Jan

          Jan
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