10

Impeachment to begin - just not who you think

Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 5 months ago to Government
52 comments | Share | Flag

Koskinen absolutely should be impeached. If the FBI isn't going to press charges against Lerner because of blatant political shenanigans, Congress should absolutely impeach and remove Koskinen.
SOURCE URL: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/chaffetz-gop-house-members-introduce-resolution-impeach-irs-commissioner


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 5 months ago
    Hello blarman,
    This whole spectacle is proof positive that the entire alphabet soup of federal agencies have become nothing more than tools for the elitists in charge. The IRS and DOJ are among the worst... They are completely politicized and might as well be part of the political apparatus of the DNC right now. The EPA is also at the top of that list.

    Impeachment proceedings should not stop with Koskinen... He is merely a pawn among many.
    A fish rots from the head down...
    Respectfully,
    O.A.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
      I'm not an expert on the topic, but I suspect impeachment can only be used on elected or appointed positions... full time civil servants would be disciplined through the civil service code.

      It would seem that this guy and his deputies (likely only the ones in the chain of commend to Lerner) would be vulnerable.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
        Koskinen was appointed by President Obama as IRS head when Lerner retired. Any executive branch position is subject to impeachment, but it is brought up rarely at all against anyone, and never against subordinates.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
          I happen to know the founders of the Tea Party movement, they live about 20 miles from me in Grass Valley, CA. The ridiculous stuff they went through filing for non-profit status was unreal... they demanded a list of all charities they had donated money to in the last 10 years, a list of all candidates for any elected position they had donated to, a list of all members and donors of their organization, and their spouses names, what all the members of the organization did as an occupation and their annual incomes for the last 2 years, a list of all former addresses for the last 10 years for themselves and all members... etc. It was ridiculous. It looked much more like gathering material for an 'enemies list' than deciding if the organization met the standard for political non-profit.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
            And this is precisely the kind of requirements imposed by Lerner et al that Koskinen should be impeached for and Lerner should have been prosecuted for. That the FBI declined to press charges was purely a political move, as the (in)Justice Department made that call.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
              We can only hope others in 'appointed' positions may learn something, they seem to covet those high-paying / low-work effort jobs.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                It will only matter if impeachment actually succeeds. If the Democrats block it in the Senate (as I predict they will) then nothing will change.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 5 months ago
                  Exactly. The impeachment of Clinton demonstrated that the Senate will always vote their politics and not the truth in any impeachment trial, so the whole exercise is pointless.

                  We need to amend the Constitution to give the voters the power of recall.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
                  It's my understanding the House files/brings the impeachment charges, and the Senate is required to hear and stand as jury. The proceedings themselves would then take place, guilt or innocence is question, but with a FBI report itself saying "incompetence isn't a crime", that should weigh pretty heavily on a case of "incompetence" as cause for dismissal.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                    That's my understanding as well, and I agree with your conclusion. The House votes to Impeach. The Senate votes to Convict.
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
                      As it isn't a bill, I don't see where the Dems would have sufficient votes (or even the possibility within the rules) to block the proceedings themselves. Whether guilt or innocence is another matter, but it's not a criminal proceeding, it is a hearing to justify dismissal. I would think the burden is pretty low. I would even suggest that the guy quit instead of go through it (if he had any honor).
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                        No, it isn't a bill, but an official vote is still part of the proceedings in both chambers. It is only on a vote of Impeachment (similar to a grand jury decision) that the baton is then passed to the Senate for a vote of Conviction.

                        Remember, this did happen to President Clinton. He was impeached by the House. He just fell short of conviction by the slimmest of margins because the Democrats voted party-line.
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                        • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
                          It requires a 2/3 majority, but only of the Senators present. That being said, there are also specified times for hearings and x number of days between each phase, etc.

                          Like I said though, it may come down to the fact that continued Democrat residence in the White House is not likely, and whether they really want to be on the other side of this issue someday themselves. If they let him go, it stamps "Obama Approval" on the issue of harassing private Americans with the tax investigators just for their political speech in the flavor of Nazi Gestapo... if they slap him as the responsible individual, it insulates Obama's "legacy" a little.

                          He may very well be sacrificed. Think of Oliver North.
                          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                          • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                            You may very well be correct, but all I see from the Democrats is more and more defense of their ideology. We saw it in the Planned Parenthood hearings. We saw lots of it in the Benghazi depositions. We see it in the media.

                            I also look at the vote that just took place in the House to authorize a carte blanche budget and how many Republicans went along with it. That makes me extremely leery of anything actually happening.
                            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 5 months ago
        Hello scojohnson,
        I was thinking of the nincompoop that appointed the heads of these agencies... Although I'm confident the list could be expanded exponentially from there down.
        Regards,
        O.A.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 5 months ago
    “Impeachment is the appropriate tool to restore public confidence in the IRS and to protect the institutional interests of Congress,” Chaffetz said in introducing the resolution. “This action will demonstrate to the American people that the IRS is under repair, and signal that Executive Branch officials who violate the public trust will be held accountable.”

    Rubbish. Impeachment is a band aid on the fatal cancer that is the 16th amendment
    When the IRS is disbanded and the 16th amendment repealed, then and only then, will the people be assured that the IRS will no longer be a threat to liberty.
    The power of the agency (and of the entire federal government) is the problem.
    The only solution is to reduce the power to what it was under the Article of Confederation. The constitution has not been adequate to limit federal government power.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
      You will hear no argument from me on that topic. But I did have one glimmer of satisfaction that the Obama-FBI said "terrible management is not a crime"... ok... but "Terrible Management" is obviously something that you can be removed from your job for... so if Obama won't fire these clowns, then it's good that the House will at least try to.

      I suspect the democrats in the House may not put up much of a fight on this, Obama obviously doesn't have any future plans, but the House members have to support future presidents. Hillary is looking weak, and I'll bet they don't look forward to the prospect of a future Republican President putting the IRS on any 'opposition'.

      We saw that early in the Obama regime... he tried to ban Fox News from the briefing room, and all the other networks, while they loathe Fox, realized very quickly that if they went, they themselves would be vulnerable when the winds blow the other way. They didn't want that precedent.

      I suspect this might be the case, and even the Dems must be pretty tired of the Chicago crony-politics by now.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
      Impeachment would work - but blatant partisanship obstructs it from being effective. It isn't the Constitution, but cronyism that is the cancer.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 5 months ago
        The body politic has more than one cancer.
        The 16th amendment is one, but it wouldn't exist without the cancer of corruption.
        The constitution does not include adequate protection against corruption. I suspect that was done by the federalists by design. The Articles of Confederation were a success for everyone except the statists, and that is the real reason they had to be replaced by a constitution that had inadequate safeguards against corruption.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
          I think that is why Carson & Trump are doing much better in the polls... in fact, Kasich's crying and meltdown last night were just self-evident. People are tired of these corrupt do-nothing losers. Everyone knows its time to drain the swamp.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by IndianaGary 8 years, 5 months ago
            Pardon the mixed metaphor, but when draining the swamp be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. It will be very easy for this society to devolve into pure anarchy. That is the progressive goal, after all.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 5 months ago
              I disagree, that's always the threat of the established political class.. that 'deals can't be made', etc. We at one time had a system of citizen elected leaders that would perform their civic duties, and then go home to their businesses or farms. This doesn't need to be that much more complex than serving as a juror. Show up, staff crafts the language for the major bills of the cycle, they pin their Christmas Tree ornaments on it or whatever to get a few votes here and there, pass it and go home. They are not double-duty as first responders or commanders on the battlefield, they soak up rays in front of TV cameras and spend 300 days a year chasing campaign donations. It's stupid.

              We still kind of have that, for example, a couple of states I can think of - North Dakota and Nevada only have bi-annual legislatures, compared to where I live (California) where are piglets meet every day of every year. We have to deal with 10s of thousands of bills from taxing sugary drink cans to provide 'fat kid programs' to banning paper & plastic bags anywhere in the state to requiring 'reformulated gasoline' that adds a dollar a gallon on every consumer in California.

              Having 'no deals being made' and only getting the minimums done, is probably a hell of a better experience for the citizen... If they are not in session, pretty hard to come up with stupid ways to waste more of the taxpayers' money. Not coincidentally, the part-time legislature states tend to be solvent.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
          The problem with the Articles of Confederation - at least from what I've read in the Anti-Federalist papers - is that there wasn't enough central authority to keep the States from disintegrating into individual countries. In order for the "United States" to be united, they had to set their priorities to being Americans first and Virginians, Tennesseeans, etc. second. I agree that the Federal government has become too powerful, but I think the Articles of Confederation are the extreme other end of the spectrum.

          In my opinion, the major Amendment which is at fault is the Seventeenth, where Senators began being elected by popular vote instead of by their respective State Legislatures.

          The other one that I think pretty effectively hamstrings impeachment of the Executive is the Twelfth Amendment which made it so both President and Vice-President come from the same party instead of being the two highest vote-getters. It severely blunts the threat of impeachment because power wouldn't change hands.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 5 months ago
            Liberty died with the Articles of Confederation, and Empire was born.
            I would much rather see a smaller confederation of states prospering in liberty than an empire enslaving producers for power.

            However, under the constitution, without the 16th amendment and the federal reserve act which spawned it, the central government would not have the means to amass power and banksters the means to rob and control the people. The 12th and 17th are also anti-liberty.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 5 months ago
              Why the 12th? Having the president and VP come from different parties only meant the President dared not leave town (and would always be in danger, since if something happened to him the opposition would take over).

              Frankly, I think we'd be better off with a parliamentary system. At least with that, everyone is accountable, and there's never any gridlock unless the election was so close that a coalition government resulted. And you have the very useful mechanism of a vote of no confidence.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                I'm not sure I interpret it the same way. The Constitution specifically puts the VP in charge of the Senate. To have the VP from the opposing party would be a powerful check on "populist" bills that squeek by on the slimmest of margins. And it isn't as if the VP can sign bills into law. I'd also love to see the VP run the Senate instead of the Majority Leader - especially if the Senate was filled with representatives selected by State Legislatures rather than by popular vote.

                Also, I think the President should fear for his status in office - not at threat of life or limb but certainly by Impeachment and Conviction. I hearken back to the words of several of the Republicans like Trey Gowdy when talks of impeaching Obama were brought up and his response was all about how that would put Biden in.

                And can you imagine how differently Presidential elections would be conducted if every candidate was actually vying for the top seat but that the second-most vote getter also got a position of power? It would make third-parties a much more viable possibility and people would be able to vote for the Ross Perots and Ron Pauls without it just being a means of putting Democrats into office. I can guarantee you that the Republican Party would almost certainly cease to exist overnight as it would really break down into a Constitution party and Libertarians. It would also fracture the Democrats into a Progressive wing and a Blue Dog wing.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
              A confederation of states? Like the current EU? Thanks but no thanks.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 5 months ago
                No, like under the Articles. Europe has never had freedom. The EU is a monetary enslavement of the member countries.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                  There were major problems with the Articles of Confederation, which was why they were abandoned in the first place. Some included individual states placing tariffs on other States' products, the threat of several of the States to enter into mutual defense treaties with England (against other States), and numerous problems with jurisdictional squabbles over enforcement of judicial judgments and laws. Would you have us go back to those issues and be dissolved as a nation? Did you have potential solutions?
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 5 months ago
                    Yes, there were problems that could have been resolved by contract. It was used by the statist Hamiltonians to create a central government that made it easier to control via corruption. They didn't even include the Bill of Rights. It was an afterthought to the disgusting central power that was planned. They used the fear factor and rumor mongering to get it passed. The European powers were little threat. They couldn't control the colonies because of the distance and astronomical expense.
                    yes, I would prefer to see 5 nations with contractual confederation agreements instead of the evil empire that is the federal government.
                    Give the people a real choice without a gun to our heads and the income tax, the federal reserve, the mommy state will be extinct in at least several of the nations. The ones that choose socialism will collapse under their corruption, just as the USA is destined to.
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
                      I would point out that the Constitution is a contract - just like the Articles of Confederation were. The two documents just have significantly different terms.

                      If you haven't read it, I would seriously suggest "The Anti-Federalist Papers". It is a collection of the deliberations of the Constitutional Congress and was very enlightening to me, as it described the various positions taken by participants of those negotiations and how things played out. When I read it, I didn't get any sense of fear-mongering or rumor-mongering whatsoever. Indeed, the debates were of great substance and depth and there was the greatest latitude given to a divergence of ideas. On several key portions of the document, there were dozens of votes held to break the gridlock of opposing thoughts. That doesn't happen when fear rules a debate. The book goes on to detail how most of Hamilton's ideas were rejected outright by the vast majority of the participants: they rejected a strong central government in favor of strong State governments. And it was only in the event of the War of 1812 (which threatened to destroy and subjugate the nation as a whole) that all the States finally threw in together and pledged their support to becoming truly the United States of America.

                      Has the Constitution been corrupted by the designs of power-mongering men in the past 200 years? Absolutely. Benjamin Franklin warned that those who would be drawn to the seats of power would not likely be the honorable men of the nation. But if one goes back to the original Constitution and Bill of Rights and starts from there (along with appropriately interpreting such clauses as the "Necessary and Proper" clause, the "Commerce" clause, and several others), that the foundation for a free society is all right there. I see a dissolution back to individual states as serving only to breed fractiousness but neither freedom nor greatness. You are of course welcome to disagree.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
                      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago
                        I've only found one part to be nebulous and that was done on purpose. Other than how they handled the slavery issue the rest of it is precise. If followed. Which is why it was round filed. Is it living? Yes but only because it precisely provides a way to make change. Faster than an entrenched government (conservative) might wish and slower than an out side activist (liberal) might wish but it works.

                        Ignoring it is not an option.
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 5 months ago
                        I have read the anti-federalist papers (many years ago), and they are indeed inspiring, especially when the 'federalist' papers are read in parallel. while I am inspired, the result is the same. They were the politicians of their day. The results of their ideas has been annointed as saintly by generations of politicians and historians. The bottom line, however, is different. The anti-federalists were as naiive (or complicit) as the federalists were statist. The primary reason that individual liberty and all the benefits that come from it have lasted at all was the later addition of the Bill of Rights. Without the Bill of Rights, the constitution primarily transfers power from states to central government. It does not include the bold statements of the Declaration of Independence which so profoundly describes individual rights and their source. If you read it, you will see the fear of European powers in the background. The anti-federalists succummed to those fears and surrendered power to the central state even while trying to set up a framework to bond the states together in fear of European monarchs. They did restrict the power of the president somewhat, most not wanting another monarch. Living in a new near empty continent, a frontier, they failed to prepare for the eventuality that the central government, if not overtly limited, would be subject to the same human nature of the governments of Europe. Instead they recognized that in the states and forbade them from reorganizing. The language of freedom from the Declaration was omitted. The whole constitution appears to be a set of rules for bureaucracy, but includes little to limit the central government overtly. Only later with the Bill of Rights were limits stated, albeit recently those are circumvented or ignored for 'national security' or other convenience. Some of the federalists knew what they were doing, having visions of grandeur of empire.
                        Yes, your state of mind does affect how the document is understood. We do not stand here, a weak group of states, the only republic in the world standing against powerful monarchs in Europe, existing in a wilderness needing every man to work hard for our very survival. We see a dictatorial central power of elitist looters that bribes the less capable and the less industrious among us to steal from those who willingly strive for self reliance in a modern world of many conveniences. These statist looters steal away the unalienable individual rights as the statist monarch did in the Declaration of Independence. I see two documents (the Articles and the Constitution) that made this abomination possible. In retrospect, the Constitution appears a greater threat to individual liberty.
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 5 months ago
    blarman: What many people seem not to under-
    stand is that a state government may also be ty-
    rannical. I think that there are things that govern-
    ment
    should be prohibited from doing, whether
    Federal, State, or municipal. I don't see that slavery or Jim Crow was justifiable, just be-
    cause neither was Federal.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 8 years, 5 months ago
      I agree. When leaders seek for power rather than to promote liberty, tyranny of some form or other is the result. And when people become accustomed to tyranny in ever-increasing amounts, they soon find themselves bound by heavy chains and enslaved to those masters. The only recourse is personal vigilance, which unfortunately is most personal when it requires sacrifice of time, resources, or life.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago
      aui contraire Jim Crow was sanctioned by the federal government by doing nothing about it. That's called tacit approval. But dead right on the comment Not to forget city and county governments. Tammany Hall in NYC, Chicago in general, Washington State under Christine Gregoire.... my ex father in law spoke of the local sherrif being elected under this rule. We know the present all the past sheriffs have been corrupt. We know this one will probably be corrupt and so would the other guy. But we don't know this one will be corrupt until the day after the election. So we get rid of one and try again. They didn't have recall.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago
    Can't argue with that. but then who has the power to remove Koskinen with just a snap of finger and a five second signature under a note that sez..your're fired.?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 5 months ago
      That, President Trump could do.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 5 months ago
        Yes but he's still a left wing socialist corporatist RINO at best and a looter moocher at worst. If he will lie about the Ford deal he's just another candidate for none of the above might as well vote for any of the hand selected slate pre approved by the left. Obama was the answer but he's not in charge ....that would be the string pullers of the neo-feudalist establishment aristocracy. So sock puppet is not the answer either as we've all found out. I'd rather go with Webb on what LITTLE I know than Trumpet Boy on what LITTLE I do know. He's just Hillary in drag.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo