Say what you will, but we now have a Libertarian as Speaker of the House.

Posted by  $  Zero 3 years, 8 months ago to News
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Maybe I just have lower standards for politicians - but I'm kinda pleased about this.

Will it make any difference - I don't know - probably not. Seems its all bad news lately.

But I'll take what I can get.
We now have a person with strong free-market views 3rd in line for the Presidency!
Ha!
SOURCE URL: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/29/us-usa-congress-ryan-idUSKCN0SN1XN20151029


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    Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
    Libertarian? Rubbish.
    He had support of the masters of the GOP.
    He is suborned, or he would not have been approved.
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      You may not have noticed, FFA, but the Tea Party is a GOP subset - not an independent (i.e. un-electable) 3rd party.

      A poor fit - no doubt - but it got several candidates elected that we're better off for having.

      And it got the conversation started.

      I expect little from politicians, but like I said - I'll take what I can get.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
        I do understand, Zero, but taking what we can get has been so successful, I am not consenting any longer. The GOP are traitors.
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        • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
          Sooo, Democrat or non-voter? Or "other" (i.e. non-voter.)
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          • Posted by editormichael 3 years, 8 months ago
            Being a non-voter is NOT a vote for left-collectivists, and it is a shameful inaccuracy even coming from an essentially decent and correct person such as you, Zero.
            Voting for an alleged "lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.
            If you want to help, how about endorsing Instant Runoff Voting? Thank you.
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            • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
              Thank you for the compliment, EM, very kind.

              But just to be clear - I don't equate voting-your-conscious with supporting the Socialist Left.
              I just think you are failing to oppose them.

              No candidate will ever be all your looking for. Does that mean you should never vote?

              Many OBJ's would have trouble voting for a Libertarian. Hell, some OBJ's would have serious trouble voting for some other OBJ's.

              But if a Libertarian had a real chance of winning I would enthusiastically support him/her.
              Even if I profoundly disagree with them on Foreign Policy.

              Does that mean I'm voting for evil?

              The more you think the two are the same - the more your argument makes sense.
              But I don't think Republicans and Democrats are "practically the same." I see a vast difference between the two.

              They're both politicians - hence liars and thieves - but only one seeks to actively enslave me.
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              • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                The only person that can answer that question is the only person that can absolve any guilt feeling you are having. If you are having no guilt feelings and ask me for peace of mind I won't grant it. Member of the secular devil's congregation get behind me.

                The key give away was "I don't think. Had you said I don't believe or I don't judge them or I am sure that....different store. I don't think is not a conclusion and most of the time is an escape hatch cop out. Judge yourself its conscience not mine.
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                • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                  Being as non voter is one of the few choices left in a corrupt voting system that denies freedom of choice to all but the a select two and worse steals the opposition votes cast by any method and give them to the opposition. Being a non -registrant is worse. Registering and not voting is the only statistic left to influence. Prez years that's 50-55 percent. votng and 45 percent choosing none of the above. non prez years it s around 35 percent voting and 65% choosing none of the above. Divide either of those two means at best only one third of the nation less than 20% even with the stolen votes elect a candidate in the essentially meaningless popular vote. No way that's a mandate nor a landslide even if they took ALL the votes cast.
                  Condemnation of a failed system and a Vote of No Confidence is a better description. But it's all we have left. Voting at the local level and refusing to vote for any of the major party candidates is a possibility and another choice. Voting for no candidates and only on measures is another one.
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          • Posted by xthinker88 3 years, 8 months ago
            So somebody who votes for anybody but a Democrat or a Republican is a non-voter. Interesting how you can so easily twist the meaning of the word non-voter on a site devoted to A is A.

            If you mean that their vote doesn't count then I would definitely reconsider whether your vote for a Republocrat or Demublican counts either.
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            • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
              I know it's a provocative stretch - but it seems true to me.
              If you're not voting for someone who has a chance of winning - you may as well have stayed home.

              Yeah, I know you can "have your voice heard" but who the hell is listening. And besides, REAL damage can be done.

              After the second time I voted for Perot I vowed never to "vote my conscious" again.

              1992: Clinton 43.0%, Bush 37.5%, Perot 18.9%
              1996: Clinton 49.2%, Dole 40.7%, Perot 8.4%

              Am I the only one who remembers this stuff?
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              • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
                Trust me on this....the damage at this point is almost completely irreversible and voting for people that will get us to the cliff just a little bit slower means that we go off the cliff no matter what.

                We continue to vote for Frack because Frack is not quite as Progressive (or stupid) as Frick. Never the less, the damage will be the same!

                I for one have had it with that line of thinking! I will not give aid and comfort to the other guy (who for the most part is a fraud him/her self. I will only vote for those who show that they are the real deals by their actions.

                This is what I owe myself, my family and my friends, neighbors and fellow citizens. Don't just settle! It's not worth the cost to your conscience...
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              • Posted by xthinker88 3 years, 8 months ago
                Yes. I remember. Because George Read My Lips Bush and Bob I've been a politician for 300 years Dole would have made such great presidents.

                Nice that you can be so deluded by the progressive political machine though and keep voting them into office.
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                • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
                  There are persons of sound mind and good heart on both sides of most every issue, XT.
                  I am no more deluded than liberals are stupid or conservatives are mean.

                  And yes, since there are absolutely no pro-business Democrats, I will always vote for the Republican - no matter how much I dislike it.

                  (Except Hillary vs Trump - I'll sit that one out. Cry and get drunk, probably.)
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              • Posted by xthinker88 3 years, 8 months ago
                Nice to know that you no longer vote in accordance with what your own reason and ethics tell you is the right choice.

                So you sacrifice what is good in order to gain what is evil. I think AR had choice words for that type of decision.
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                • Posted by broskjold22 3 years, 8 months ago
                  This convo is interesting. I think XT is calling out pragmatism in your approach, Zero. And Zero is calling out realism. But morality has its root in reality. What is the moral response to an election where the only "idealistic" "moral" claims come from a socialist? If Ron Paul were running, I believe this conversation would hold a much different tone. Why? Paul Ryan argues from a traditional perspective, appealing to "common sense" conservatives. Ron Paul would explain the reasons America has to do what it must, but due to his lack of aesthetics (take it as you will), he failed among all but the "underground" libertarians.
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                • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
                  My reason and ethics did tell me the right choice. I'd prefer Perot.
                  But I knew I wouldn't get Perot.

                  Of the other two - I'd rather not have the Democrat.
                  And there we have it.

                  You say the big two are the same -
                  I say "Say wuht?!

                  I prefer creeping up on Socialism to making a mad dash for it.
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                  • Posted by mdant 3 years, 8 months ago
                    "I prefer creeping up on Socialism to making a mad dash for it."

                    I agree. It is true that, in the long run, the Republicans are taking deeper into socialism as well, but because they are trying to fool their conservative base they do not charge full speed into it like the Democrats are itching to do anytime they get a opening.
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                    • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
                      And that makes the GOP worse, not better.
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                      • Posted by mdant 3 years, 8 months ago
                        Huh??? How can a slower move into socialism be worse than a faster move? I figure I am at least half way through my life and have a lot better chance of a decent life if it is slower.
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                        • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
                          My comment was about the GOP lying about their goals.
                          But you must recognize it isn't slower. That is just the false assumption that the GOP wants you to believe.
                          When a Dem is in the oval office, the GOP has (in the past at least) had to oppose the worst unconstitutional proposals. When a republican is in the oval office, there is no opposition to such programs regardless of how unconstitutional they are. In recent years, the GOP makes no attempt to reduce government; they only change who get the spoils of government piracy.
                          Contrast the failure of Clinton to pass laws ignoring the bill of rights to the successful destruction of its protection of rights under GWBush. The Democrats are openly and brazen looters. The GOP pretends to be defenders of liberty until the day after the election. Then they do nothing to stop the growth of government. In fact, they expand it beyond the programs previously passed by Democrats.

                          Wake up! Evil = Evil.
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                          • Posted by mdant 3 years, 8 months ago
                            I understand your point, but I do not think it is entirely correct. Obama Care and nothing similar would have happened under a Republican president...or at least it would not have happened anytime in the near future.
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                            • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
                              No you don't understand or you wouldn't continue to excuse the traitorous acts.
                              That thinking is what keeps the statists in power. They just change tactics when the GOP reigns. Instead of Obamacare you got Fatherland Security.
                              Neither is acceptable. Stop making excuses for the evil bastards who steal your liberty, your privacy, and your property. Evil is evil.
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                              • Posted by mdant 3 years, 8 months ago
                                Ha, I understand perfectly well all right. You are one of those people that want to cut off your head because you do not like your nose. What good does it do you or anyone else to help elect someone that is going to destroy your world faster, simply because the other person has offended you! Get control of your hate and act with practicality.
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                                • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
                                  It's not the nose on my face, its the noose that the statist party puts around my neck that I object to.
                                  You have not refuted the argument.
                                  Personal attacks do not change the reality that I have stated.
                                  The GOP is responsible for the Patriot Act.
                                  Republicans voted for the National Firearms Act (1934) and Federal Firearms Act of 1938.
                                  Republicans voted 178 to 43 in favor of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
                                  There are thousands of bills the GOP has passed that trample on our liberty and enlarge the state.
                                  Evil is evil.
                                  A vote for the GOP is a vote for evil.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
                Of course we remember.
                We also remember what the Bush family has done, and it's worse than Bill Clinton.
                Dole? What a looting slime.
                Wake up, Zero.
                The two parties are one. They are complicit in the destruction of liberty. They are evil.
                Don't vote for evil.
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              • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                Bull Stuff. If you vote for anyone who should not be elected you should have stayed home unless your intentions were less than honorable to begin with. If you vote for anyone in the former two parties who closed the event an arrange for stealing I would suggest are one of them.
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                • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
                  I reject the accusation of "pragmatism" or worse.
                  As an OBJ - a staunch advocate of reason - I am an idealist of the first order.

                  One of my most basic beliefs is that
                  "Whenever you figure something out you must act on it. Nothing will be OK until you do."
                  Pretty Idealistic, no?

                  Well, I figured out that:
                  - my guy can't win right now, and
                  - one of these other two guys WILL win, and
                  - one of them is much worse than the other (at least in MY judgment), so...
                  ...how can I fail to work against the greater evil?

                  My responsibility as an Idealist is to resist oppression - not throw up my hands, take my ball and go home.

                  But that's just my take on it.
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                  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                    You can't fail at all if you are an individual who makes an individual choice after having identified evil to support evil. The degree of evil is immaterial. Thus having turned your back on good and chosen evil you are a pragmatist and have just made a lie out of your first claim and your life. I didn't make the choice you made the choice to be an evil person. It's your mirror that judges not mine.The the was of putting your four point program is "I was only following orders Mein Herr." The Nuremberg Defense which is an open admission of guilt coupled with a plea for clemency or lighter sentence. I refuse to grant it if you are asking me I know their are other choices and refuse to join the secular devil's congregation. If you are asking yourself 'judge not less you have judged yourself."

                    You get no peace of conscience from any other than your own conscience sounds like you are trying to justify your choice and failing badly. So get behind me. minus Zero you get no converts here;

                    Moral Philosophy 101 is a great tool for those that have the balls to use it.
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                    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
                      Gotta tell ya, Mike, I've never been compared to a Nazi before. Kinda rough, don'cha think.

                      My conscious haunts me for many past sins but not about this.

                      It's OK to disagree, y'know, that not everyone who differs is evil.
                      In fact - few people really are.

                      Even Obama - who seems in a mad rush to destroy us - is in fact acting on his best judgment, sincerely trying to do what he feels is best for his people.

                      The world is a COMPLICATED place.
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                      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                        go to NEW or History and look for Defined Not Devine. First part a precis of history and the second personal comment.

                        Don't take it rough it was a lot less what i had to go through finding out 24 years in the infantry had been for nothing. I'm not sure how long I've got on this planet so I use head on shock but probably not awe and I principally stick up for those of us who were termed enemies of the country by a government of traitors.

                        Consider. DOHS when I mention them is Directorate of Internal State Security because the DISS the citizens and do little to protect us. It's just a way to get a new protective echelon in place. Translate that to German. Schutz Staffel. SS. Lightning strikes on black uniform collars. Consider the english meaning of Barak. lightning and lightning is a destroyer.

                        My uniform had three on the shoulder patch and the motto in latin is De Opresso Liber. Liberate the Oppressed we were used for that nobly stated purpose - very little and used for the opposite purpose too much. And then spit on by the people who used us.

                        You get a momentary twinge of self pity. I get to die not being able to change that stain on our unit's honor.

                        Maybe......doing something like this will be of some use especially since the oppressed now can be found in any passenger line in any airline terminal..not to mention income tax and ;shyster dictators moochers and looters running the government.

                        Definitely look for ways of improving it. The lack of ability to figure out what those bastards are doing in Wash. DC is largely a result of the redefinition. At the very least you now know why Republicans have become Democrat lapdogs and Madonna the liberal airhead made a movie in praise of Evita Peron a supposedly right wing fascist. She was but it wasn't really right wing. just right wing of the left.

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                      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                        I used them as the prime example of the Nuremberg Defense I didn't assign a verdict or make known the charge. That was....you?

                        Don't take it too hard most people don't realize what fascist truly means nor that the entire left from Rino to Hillary are all of that bent. Byi association so are their supporters. Most don't understand conservative or liberal and probably think Democrat means democratic. Pays to read a pre PC dictionary from time to time.
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                    • Posted by  $  CBJ 3 years, 8 months ago
                      Ayn Rand voted for Nixon in 1972, even after he had imposed wage and price controls in the previous year.
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                      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                        Wow really how leftist can you get...hang the witch. Who was the opponent. Eisenhower or Truman. What were the context of the times and how much of Tricky's true character had emerged. Oh 1972 not 1952 sorry....I didn't but I didn't vote for the other guy either. I didn't approve of China deal just back from tour four or was it tour five? AK's were clear stamped made in China. Well someone had to clean up LBJ's war.
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                        • Posted by  $  CBJ 3 years, 8 months ago
                          Really, a one-sentence statement of fact makes me a leftist? My point is that voting for the “lesser of two evils” can sometimes be justified. I didn’t vote for Nixon or McGovern either, but I think Ayn Rand had legitimate reasons for supporting Nixon and urging her readers to vote for him. See http://capitalismmagazine.com/2004/10...
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                          • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                            Then you will have to live with it. That's your independent choice to support evil after having defined it as such yourself. No one else. You alone bear responsibility for the consequences. No one else. Just you and your conscience.

                            Leftist supporter? Of course you just chose and stated so in your reasoning to support the left. What other conclusion could there be?

                            I didn't make that decision you did.

                            Does the left have to be an evil institution. No it does not.

                            Some still have one foot in the center which is the Constitution for the rest of us. Those are people who believe in a bit more federalism than does the center. Which I think is what you are struggling to define as your position. But current definitions don't allow that do I changed them to suit reality. On the other side opposite government over people is citizens over government. They too must keep one foot in the sacred ground of the Constitution.

                            Both must use the Amendment system for substantive change including changing the amendment system.

                            Neither side can ignore or institute as dictatorship either by a President or a Judge nor by the whim of one State. Same Sex got in by those routes, Does that mean because Oregon voted for accepting ballots from the graveyard or recreational drug use the rest MUST follow. No it does not.

                            But if it means voting for a left wing progressive extremist of the now admittedly socialist camp I submit you have moved beyond the pale. Beyond the common bond and accepted evil. By my definition. I get to make that observation.

                            Which means more drift to the left. Drift? How about stampede.

                            Extreme Left complete government control

                            Left = government control over people

                            Its center puts the source of power somewhere between fascism and mind control.

                            Center and right by true definition is recognizing the source of power is not divine but defined as

                            Citizens over government.

                            One side recognizes Citizens the other recognizes persons in the same manner as serfs, slaves, peons and peasants.Not humans, some things to pee on.

                            Lest I forget the extreme right becomes Anarchy the complete absence of government and perhaps rejection of society.

                            Referring to my other submission.

                            By those standards almost every Republican and all Democrats are left wing and their center is not the sacred ground of the nation. It's too fascist too socialist and too progressive to have anything to do with center Its too extreme. It is too evil as it seeks to subjugate human independence, reason, thought and freedoms and is in no way democratic.

                            So we get to your choices? Of all the candidates of the left only one ended up being acceptable. A choice. None so far have come from the Republican/RINO wing of the left. So
                            I'm speaking of Jim Webb. Others may join him and those of us in or near the center by repudiating their connection as a group or as individuals. It remains to be seen. I support a complete split between RINO republicans and Centirst Republicans.

                            Enough......Read the other post on Define not Divine which alludes to Divine Right of Kings but means 'the source of power.'

                            think about it see if it answers any questions or can be improved but it's still your choice.

                            Perhaps you will find a way to smack me into some reality. I hope so.

                            I'm conducting a counter revolution against evil. Therefore I reject it completely. There is no need and compelling reasons to stand against it. But not with leftist PC definitions.










                            .
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                    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                      The the is the other way or the short version of putting . their was there.

                      The outcome though is when you make public confession it's an admission of self-conviction as in convicted not as in having convictions.
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                      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                        If applied by yourself to your other writings should provide - for you - a suitable answer. It was not a condemnation. Sort of a lifeline or a way to review your own system and self evaluate the worth to yourself. It's oh dark early I'm going back to sleep and contemplate my sins of mixing up there and their with finger memory.
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                    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
                      "The degree of evil is immaterial."

                      Believe me, I'm really ready to leave this whole post behind, but...
                      I saw this part again - repeated over and over again - the defining point of your argument - and it is complete bunk.

                      I have to call it out before walking away.

                      "The degree of evil is immaterial."
                      What hogwash.

                      I have lied to my spouse, many others have cheated on their's, a few have killed them.
                      Are we morally equivalent? Is the degree of evil is immaterial?

                      If you're about to say any variation of "YES" just speak to the hand.
                      I stopped having these kinds of arguments in 10th grade.
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          • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
            No! Principled voter!

            Enough of voting for the "lesser of two evils" being that evil is still evil.

            We have been following that silly path and look where it has gotten us!

            Besides, Truth be told, both major parties are run by the same oligarchy and are the power of the folks that Ayn Rand wrote about.

            It is about time that the country wakes up and understands that both parties (run by their respective "Establishments" are leading us hand in hand down the path shown in Atlas Shrugged.

            For what its worth!
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          • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
            Undecided, but not voting for the statist party.
            But its not about me. Its about the millions of conservatives who are lemmings for the GOP.
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            • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
              undecided but not voting for the corporatist party. Which party is which. They are the same. Corporatist and Statist are descriptions of two legs of the socialist triumverate. Thje other is union leaders. Together they make up the Government Party....
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      • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
        I can assure you friend that is absolute rubbish! I and the folks I am associated with take on the Republicans and hold them to the same standards we hold the rest.

        People who haven't a clue would make such a silly statement. Who do you think put the 80 members of the Freedom Caucus in? Santa Clause or John Boehner.

        I suggest before making statements like that you dig a little deeper and use critical thinking to test your statements.
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        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
          Nice but what was accomplished. Boehner eases out with a secure future...The other guy eases in with the blessings of the left. Did it change anything? It did not just diverted attention for a little bit of time. Nothing has materially changed besides a slight improvement in the quality of the actors in the street theater national charade. Only one, ONE, individual has made the a quantitative step. Only one. He wasn't a Republican

          In adding up the tote Republican = Rino= Democrat = Dion = Socialist Party. Still the lapdogs of the left no matter the thespian skills.

          Talking or acting is not the same as doing. That' a pure left wing trait.
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      • -2
        Posted by KCLiberty 3 years, 8 months ago
        You do realize the "Tea Party" was a propaganda creation by the RNC/DNC cabal? It was a purely media-created astroturf movement. Anyone who claims to be a Tea-o-Con cannot be trusted.
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        • Posted by  $  richrobinson 3 years, 8 months ago
          The TEA party successfully defeated some Republican establishment candidates in primaries over the last few election cycles. Some won and some lost in the general elections. Whenever a TEA party backed candidate lost the Republican establishment cried- told you so. They denounced them as extreme and proclaimed their candidate would have won. The problem is that most establishment candidates differ little from the Democrats. I think the RNC has a love hate relationship with the TEA party movement. They see them as a solid voting block but also as too extreme. The TEA party is upsetting the way the political game is played.
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        • Posted by  $  ObjectiveAnalyst 3 years, 8 months ago
          Hello KCLiberty,
          That is a rather broad brush. Have you any evidence of this? I am not a TEA Party member, but I have friends that are in a local chapter. Their interest was not orchestrated... it was organic... born out of frustration. The only common denominator among them is in the name... Taxed Enough Already. Are you making a distinction with this term "Tea-0-Con" which I am unfamiliar with? What exactly is a "Tea-o-Con" by your definition?

          I'm sure there are some in every crowd, but to collectively judge them in such a fashion seems rather subjective. Perhaps you have interactions with people in upper echelons while I have only interacted with grass roots locals.

          Respectfully,
          O.A.
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        • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
          I assume you supported the "real" Astroturf movement started by the Democrats, that being Move-on and Occupy Wallstreet so would make such a ill-informed statement about the Tea Party.

          You obviously never attended or participated in a Tea Party have you? I can assure you that the Republicans tried early on to co-opt the TP however they failed (having 80 members of the Freedom Caucus proves that beyond a doubt).

          So, for the sake of intellectual integrity I suggest that you reconsider such an obviously ill-informed statement. That is unless you are just a Progressive troll hanging out on this blog.....
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          • Posted by KCLiberty 3 years, 8 months ago
            You assume way too much, and you obviously have a hard time thinking. First of all, I organized the REAL Tea Party - that being a celebration of the original one in Boston in December of 2007 to support Ron Paul which was the largest campaign fundraising day of all time. We rallied against the IRS, the Iraq War, FEMA, the FED, etc.....

            Then the Neocons/RNC bastards stole the idea and turned it into a FOX News carnival. Yes, I went to the first "Tea Party" in my area. It was a puke-fest of fake conservatives and GOP morons. There were Rush Limbaugh T-shirts for Christ's sake. And Glenn Beck supporters. Hell, Karl Rove/Marx was one of the speakers. Just a bunch of red, white & blue clad sheeple who didn't know why they were gathering in the first place.

            I assure you, I am not a progressive. I am a Constitutionalist, a true conservative not a Neocon, and an objectivist libertarian overall, and a 3%'er and an Oathkeeper. You are a sheep, and easily fooled.
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            • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
              Now you assume too much! This conversation is a circular argument as to who is the "real" conservative....and it is a losing proposition I assure you. You might as well argue how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.....As for thinking, I can assure you that I can! Every bit as well as you seem to think you can.

              Now that we have established that we are probably in "violent" agreement on most if not all points, perhaps we can agree to agree on these issues!
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        • Posted by editormichael 3 years, 8 months ago
          Sorry, but that is nonsense!
          The Tea Party movement has been around for many years, but coalesced somewhat starting about 2008 or 09.
          In its early form, it was very libertarian, but has since splintered and now has many groups using the name "Tea Party," and some of them are what is called "social conservative," meaning supporting restrictions on personal liberty even while inconsistently calling for "obeying the Constitution" and cutting taxes.
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          • Posted by KCLiberty 3 years, 8 months ago
            Exactly!
            It was a planned astroturf media event. It splintered into many different groups, all with differing "goals", because there was no basic premise to begin with, other than people were angry. I went to the first one in my area, it was nothing but Neocons and ill-informed simpletons wearing Rush Limbaugh t-shirts. That is why it fairly quickly disappeared, it was arranged to be useful for that one mid-term election so people would feel good about sending more GOP leeches to Congress.

            It is OK you were fooled. So long as it happens only once.
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        • Posted by jdg 3 years, 8 months ago
          Excuse me, I resemble that remark.

          The movement that is "astroturf" is Obama's. His side even hired paid demonstrators. We've never done that.

          I call you out as a Democrat in sheep's clothing.
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          • Posted by KCLiberty 3 years, 8 months ago
            Ahh...the No True Scottsman fallacy of logic.

            Just because I am awake and I see the "Tea Party" for what it is does not make me a "Democrat". I am wise enough to know that there isn't a difference between the two parties of any real substance. And, by acknowledging that the Tea Party crap is connected to the GOP you have actually agreed with me.

            If you would like to take the red pill (ala The Matrix) and see reality I can help you. But, you must first shed the media brain washing that Republicans are conservative and Democrats are liberal - they are both corporatist (fascist) and support the military industrial complex and the Federal Reserve first, then they have some slight differences around the edges.
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        • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
          I - am Tea Party. And proudly so.
          How can I not be? I can add to 18.4 Trillion!

          The propaganda is ascribing to the Tea Party any agenda beyond fiscal conservancy.
          It's all about the money.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 3 years, 8 months ago
    I strongly disagree that Paul Ryan has strong free-market views. His voting record shows he is pretty standard conservative republican.

    I do agree that he will be better than Boehner
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      Does Ryan have Free Market views?

      Compared to whom?
      Compared to us? Well, no, not compared to us,
      But compared to his colleagues he is very far to the economic right.

      At lease he doesn't have to be persuaded that Capitalism is a GOOD thing.
      Unlike his fellows who gaze upon the markets with a baleful eye.

      Like I said, he's a politician - I'll take what I can get.
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      • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
        I agree however one must differentiate between "Crony" Capitalism (Obama's form) also known as Market Socialism and "True" Free Market capitalism.
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        • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
          I hear ya, Foster, but I gotta say Cr-apitalism is alive and well with the GOP too.
          That's always the issue with politicians and business.
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          • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
            I am in total agreement with you on that! It is sad to see how Market Socialism keeps spreading throughout the fabric of this country. The Establishment seems to have unwittingly embraced this "road to nowhere"....
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      As compared to what? He was endorsed by the left and not as a libertarian but as a Conservative. Definition means moves slow within the law but will accept change or compromise. The phrase describes the people in power who are digging in a long haul defense system.

      Being endorsed by the left means they expect the deal making to continue which means they see no sacred ground beneath that individual. i would say the same in the other direction IF they had anything to defend. They used to but they all left us.
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  • Posted by Lnxjenn 3 years, 8 months ago
    I don't believe Ryan to be a libertarian at all. He is RINO through and through. He has good aspects but his voting record stinks. He is not fiscally conservative, as he voted for the TARP and bailouts. Is it libertarian to raise the debt ceiling and the debts and increase spending?

    Alarm bells should have been ringing for everyone right of socialist when Obama and Reid and Polosi endorsed him! When they want someone, then you know you're in trouble and the constitution will be decimated
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      Is that true? I didn't know that.
      Yeah, that's not a good sign.

      'Course it could be about the "Socially Liberal" side of the OBJ/Lib mantra "Socially Liberal - Fiscally Conservative."

      Maybe they just prefer a Republican who isn't trying to take society back to the 50's.

      Just wingin' it here. I have no idea of the context.
      But since his Speaker-ship is considered the Tea Party's greatest achievement I doubt they endorse his economic views.

      But I could be wrong - I often am.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
        It was all over the news. Hard to miss. They were slobbering over him in their support.
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        • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
          Yeah, I make no effort to keep up with the news.
          I'd say "My bad." But, nah, I'm pretty happy with my level of exposure.
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          • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
            I'm much the same. But i tune in here then go look at the articles being discussed or the article headlines in townhall which is republican blog. a couple of the writers will always give up the leftist spin of the day. Most anything else I can see that's important is quick scan of intellicasts weather picture for North half of western hemisphere or their list of weather events world wide. skip by Reuters and BBC and and the local blog. About 5 minutes tops counting waiting for the screen to load. This one gets me hooked into stuff that's being ignored that's nice. like Trumps still uncommented on theft of credit onthe 'Ford Motor company deal.noticed a big drop in Trump posts since then. I'd be too embareassed to mention him too. He's off the left's list of suitable candidates to allow on the dumbo side of the final selection anyway. Hillary crap is boring. this latest meaningless charade with the 40, Boner, and the newly annointed love child of the left Rand or Ryan whatever the same. They did the same thing to McCain and played him lhoik liine and sinker like a fish without a brain. I didn't like that he just stood and took it. but thats history..Academic anyway none of the Dumbos they chose to play in the politolimpics panned out anyway...Rinos one and all. More I like the comments and some of the discussion except the one thought preachers and master de-baters. And occasionally possibilities ...But not many. When it comes to heavy lifting most stop at the book. or are here for other purposes. the one's soros or his kind send out like lambs to the slaughter. ....good references though a lot have found their way into my hands via the miracle of kindle and a few in paper form.
            that's a real plus....and original thought, original research....a lot of that in this one location. So? I go look at others when they pop up ....but normally find them lacking. The western journalism site was one. Headlines led nowhere ...no beef. The mmf or m2f media is at best skim over country with no serous journalists only spin reporters...why bother land. 'kinda liek a decaf lo fat espresso. I couldn't even bother to paragraph this one....
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  • Posted by Esceptico 3 years, 8 months ago
    According to Wikipedia, “Ryan majored in economics and political science at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio,[27] where he became interested in the writings of Friedrich Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, and Milton Friedman.[20] He often visited the office of libertarian professor Richard Hart to discuss the theories of these economists and of Ayn Rand.” Sure beats the bonehead who just vacated the seat. At least he has heard of von Mises, et al.
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    • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 8 months ago
      These things are all wonderful. Unfortunately IMHO his voting record as of late has reflected that he either was not paying attention, forgot what he learned or has become part of the Establishment.
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      • Posted by Esceptico 3 years, 8 months ago
        Worse or better than Speaker Bonehead? I never checked his record. While it would be nice to have somebody of worth, such a person (if it exhsits) does not present itself to be Speaker. I suppose we can always go back to Pelosi, right? My point is, in politics we don't want to commit the Nirvana fallacy = comparing some utopian ideal with the real world.
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        • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
          Esceptico: Just to be clear-I hope you took my comment as an affirmation of your comment and that I liked your original use of "Bonehead" for Boehner!
          It seems Foster interpreted my comment the opposite way.
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          • Posted by Esceptico 3 years, 8 months ago
            I did. No problem. It is so easy to be misunderstood when face to face, that I find it is the norm in email and posts. Referring to the former mouthpiece of the House, I was going to use the term “Mr. Boner” --- but I knew somebody would take offense even while I though it was cute — and then the entire discussion gets distracted from the point. I find it difficult to communicate what I mean while keeping the thought in back of my mind that somebody is sure to misunderstand. Anyhow, thank you for clearing it up.
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            • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
              Thanks. ("Boner" is cute!)
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              • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                In cLintons day the entire former women's movement capitulated and imploded making fools of themselves for Cute Butt Clinton. they still haven't recovered from choosing philandering over their (supposed) sisters. NOW how do you spell sexist traitors out of that?
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                • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
                  Michael A: Not sure what you are asking a response to...
                  Anyway, there is a BIG difference in VOTING for a "cute butt" and applying "Boner" to Boehner in a deprecating manner. Is this your question?
                  I found Esceptico's reference funny, no harm in that.
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                  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
                    Nothing actually I just used it as an example of 'cute' although deprecating was the outcome in both situations. To be very kind. I some how doubt you were involved in that sad episode of another wise needed movement. No response needed. I see it as a reminder to people who forget their goals and values for things of little value and that's what happened back then.
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                    • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
                      I have always tried to pay attention to the "little things" that are indicative of the larger developing situations or that support existing ones that we do not agree with. You are right.
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      • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
        That is a very sound observation!

        His record does not indicate that he is an independent thinker but rather an astute "Poiltician" as opposed to a strongly principled "Statesman".

        I'll take a statesman any day!
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    • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
      Esceptico: Thank you for the info... and the "bonehead" comment!
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      • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
        And which bonehead statement did he make?! I assume that you are a Boehner supporter......

        Everything in his posting is gospel. The only exception that I take (he is better then Boehner, that much I will concede) is that he will still be an Establishment/Moderate who will continue the damage that Boehner and his cronies have done to date.

        The end-game will be giving Obama and his minions everything that he wants. To hell with the rest of us!!
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        • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
          Foster: if you took the time to read the referenced comments you would have answered your own question..,!
          Go find Esceptico's comment and read before you accuse!!!!
          I'm not going to give you the answer- go find it and when you do then we will see who the "bonehead" is.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 8 months ago
    He said AS "inspired me so much that it is required reading in my office for all my interns and staff." Assuming he's not out-and-out lying about that, that means he will respond to anti-spending lobbying. If mail is running 50%-60% against some bailout package, like the ones in the last crisis, he has a much higher likelihood of mobilizing opposition to it than someone else would.

    I am biased against him because he is a Republican, and that makes him more likely to join with his colleagues in expanding the intrusiveness of gov't. (Both parties expand the cost of gov't, but Republicans are particularly bad about making more intrusive.) I would rather have a Republican, who at least claims to support Ayn Rand's ideas though, than a Democrat.

    I could see him having fierce battles with President Clinton over cutting spending, and it will feel just like the 90s.
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      Best and most well put leftist opinion and certainly the most honest and why the left endorsed him. After all the Republicans are only the right wing of the left and charades and games aside have yet to stray from the fold. Where's my puppy chow?:

      The rest is just would be could be should be with a large dose of dubious hope.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 3 years, 8 months ago
      He's not a baby boomer looking to increase their own handout of more pacifiers.

      The challenge of shutting down the government before was the horrible media storm that erupted and incorrectly blamed Republicans. I can see where it is basically a stalemate until Obama is gone.
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  • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 8 months ago
    Improvement..maybe but that is a stretch. Sorry but IMHO Ryan is no Libertarian. At least he does not vote that way.

    I also can no longer take a slight improvement. If the candidate does not stand to the far right meeting my principals I will not vote. As I see it, the only thing that can save our country is a hard right. Anything else leads to the same path, complete & total failure. It's just a matter of when it will happen. My generation and the generation before mine allowed this mess to be created. It is our responsibility to clean up the mess and not pass it on to people's children and grandchildren, that had nothing to do or say about it. My choice is to fix it by electing enough people that will move us quickly to the right to save us. If that cannot happen then I vote for quick failure so we can finally start to rebuild. I'm sick of the slow (currently not so slow) degradation that has been going on for so long. Fix or start over, now.
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      So... since there is no free-market party, you now vote Socialist.
      I guess we all have our own way of dealing with grief.

      But, y'know that "rebuild" of which you dream will be bloody - and most likely fatal to US.
      Whichever thug takes over to bring "law-and-order" to the anarchy will hunt us down, I assure you.

      Let it drag on long enough to give us time to leave. Either off-shore cities or space habs. It's not that much longer.

      And besides, if we could just pass a Balanced Budget Amendment we'd still have a chance to save this place.
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      • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 8 months ago
        I would never vote socialist. But I will choose not to vote. It is not about grief to me. As I said it is about not passing on our problems to the future generations.

        I agree failure will not be pretty. Not the outcome I want but again if it is going to happen the generation that caused it should pay the price. :)

        You may be correct on the balanced budget. Personally, I don't believe a slower slide to the left will produce a balanced budget any more than the path we are currently on. It will take a sharp right turn to get it done.
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    • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
      You speak the mind of many of us! Good job laying out our culpability and our responsibilities going forward.

      Let's double our efforts looking for Statesmen and Women who can get the job done. They exist even though they are usually attacked and destroyed by the sheep of this nation and the MSM that guide them.

      For what its worth!
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    • Posted by scojohnson 3 years, 8 months ago
      Social Security and Medicare need to go, as spending, it's about 70% of it. I have zero expectation of it and have planned accordingly, not that I'll ever get that $1000 a month I have sent off for the last 20 years ago to it anyway. Over my career, I will have dumped about a half-million into that shithole, and is why the government shouldn't be in the retirement planning business. Next they will add means testing and tell me I don't qualify for it when I retire in 20 years.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
        I uised the same attitude and planned ahead for times for cash on hand of projected worst need. That amount is now one half of what I get. SSA is the other half. Added together it's half of what I need to live in the USSA. Our new global nickname. OF course when they were crashing the economy and devaluing buying power they could have added that in as a cost of living adjustment. Ha HA HA. Honesty and the Government Party total at best an oxymoron.
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    • Posted by lrshultis 3 years, 8 months ago
      The far left is communism and the far right is fascism. I don't think you want either one. Libertarians are not on the political spectrum. The only libertarians that Rand might have tolerated were those with a rational philosophy.

      Please note that Rand was not a conservative and wrote against the takeover of the Republican party by the conservatives.

      As for Ryan, he tried to believe Rand's objective philosophy but let his belief in god get in the way. He then would no longer have anything to do with the that atheist philosophy.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 3 years, 8 months ago
        Fascism is not the far right. Fascism is collectivism and socialism. That is a common misconception which I think has been promulgated by the left.
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        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
          Wrong fascism can be applied anywhere as soon as any system right, left, religious or university campus applies complete control. That is the true definition of fascism. It was use by the Fascist party but is not restricted to the left though it is used primarily by the left. Parents may exhibit fascist tendencies from time to time in raising their children using belts instead of reason. You were ALMOST there but not quite. I didn't make up that definition it's standard outside the world of PC.
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        • Posted by lrshultis 3 years, 8 months ago
          On the left you have state control of the material world (property, etc. and thus far left is communism) and freedom of consciousness (morality, speech, art, etc.) and on the right you have state control of consciousness (morality, speech, etc. and thus far right fascism, nazism, etc.) and freedom of material world (property, etc.) Both require force or threat of force to implement. You seem to think that if you go further to the right of conservatism that somehow the use of force will be diminished.

          That is why libertarians do no consider themselves as being on the left right political spectrum.
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          • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
            and with good reason the current definition leaves them no place to go. It was erased when they moved the center to the center of the left. But if use a better and more historically correct definition ' the area defined as the source of power.' In this case Citizens versus the money of a few billionaires. Both of you have a home.

            Define Not Devine ....and do not accept the definitions of the opposition. Words have meanings and their meaning is totalitarian control and subjection of reason and freedom.

            They just said so openly. Socialist Not democratic.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
        I'm not atheist but every day I say Thank God for Ayn Rand. I'm also not shackled by fascist religious dogma that seeks complete control. Or by do as I say not as I do practitioners.
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      • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 8 months ago
        I can agree with most of what you state with the exception of the far right. The center as I define it is much more fascistic. The far right, as I see it, are the group that believes in a small government with limited power. One that let's people make their own decisions which is what made this country great.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
        Wrong you are using leftist PC definitions. The two are both fascist both socialist and reside in the left wing of the left. Libertarians reside slightly to the right of center. NOT the center of the left . The center where resides the Constitution. Use the leftist definitions you are shackled by their words and they ain't your friends dude they are your jailers.

        THINK!
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      Ahh but you misdefine such a person is not of the far right ...unless it's the far right wing OF the left. Judged with the Constitution as the Center your description sounds like someone who is one foot in the center and one foot supporting citizens control government. Ryan is not in that category which supposedly includes Libertarians. He is solidly in the right wing of the left. No doubt so does not 'vote that way' as you put it.

      Never use the definitions of the other side. Redefining is their major weapon against you.
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      • Posted by  $  edweaver 3 years, 8 months ago
        My definition of center is anything left of what the founding Fathers (right wing extremist of their time) established when they set up this country. But I get what you are saying only I don't believe right is so wrong. Right is....right, left is...lol
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        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
          You are getting there I'm posting a summation in a few hours. Left from the French word for the direction Sinistere which today means something dark and evil. Gauche Like Gosh with a long oh meaning lacking in social graces stumbling bumbling...Look it up the original french point the direction. Spanish is esquerda and derecha for left and right and straight ahead for derecho also meaning correct path. Basquie and some Celtic origin as loan words to Latin are common. as for definitions here are those denoting type of political parties and systems. Notice conservative is mentioned once and liberal not at all even fascist is not included. the first two have entirely different meanings and fascist is across the board if applied and very common.

          Political spectrum

          Post-left Ultra-left Far-left Left-wing
          Centre-left
          Centre/Radical centre
          Centre-right
          Right-wing Far-right/Radical right: United States - Europe

          Party platform

          Extremist Radical
          Reformist Moderate
          Syncretic
          Conservative Reactionary
          Fundamentalist

          Party system

          Non-partisan Single-party
          Dominant-party Two-party Multi-party

          Coalition

          Hung parliament Confidence and supply Minority government Rainbow coalition Grand coalition Full coalition

          National Unity government
          Majority government

          Words have meanings. That is they did until PC.
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  • Posted by editormichael 3 years, 8 months ago
    By the way, even if he were a * libertarian* -- which he isn't -- he wouldn't be a Libertarian. He is a Republican. A Libertarian is a member of the Libertarian Party. Them capital letters mean something.
    Wasn't it Milton Friedman who called himself "a small r republican"?
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      So what he studied libertarian principles. I studied Marx and Engels and that was a chore. Didn't stop me as a soldier from making appointments with Lenin for their followers. studying etc is one thing acting on it is another.
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  • Posted by bsmith51 3 years, 8 months ago
    If we truly live in the Gulch, why are we speaking of voting for or favoring this one or that one? We are on the outside looking in (or vice versa) and can only, as Voltaire said, tend our own garden.
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    • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
      Good points however most of us even though we consider ourselves to be in the "Gulch" will have to live and suffer with whatever the bozos in DC feed us.

      The paradigm must shift if we are ever again to truly live free. What we are getting now is just one nail after another in the coffin holding our dear departed Freedoms.

      We don't need another Captain on what is becoming a "Prison Ship of State"....We need someone who still believes in the US Constitution, small government, and is going to be a better steward of how our hard-earned tax monies are being spent.

      Let's see if this guy has any principles that follow those simple tenets. I for one don't think he has...
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      Get control first without it nothing else matters That means take action. No evidence of that yet. Compromise is not action it is a form of surrender.
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
      I don't live in the Gulch - I have brothers and sisters here.
      America - even today - is the Greatest Nation in the History of the World.

      I will never give up on it.
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      • Posted by KCLiberty 3 years, 8 months ago
        That depends how you define "great". Look at Peru, or Iceland (who jailed banksters and are much more free than we are). In terms of individual liberty, the US is horrible. I have to work with typical sheeple who are gullible to propaganda and vote for one or the other corporatist (see fascist) parties. Inside the walls of the building, I am nice and work very well with them. Outside of work, I wouldn't care if they were massacred by a band of rebel socialists. Unfortunately many of them have already procreated.
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        • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
          Seems most smart people are misanthropes, KC.
          Just the frustration of dealing with "lesser" intellects, I guess.

          Not me.
          From what I've seen the Average Man is not average and extraordinary people are all around us.

          As for the freedoms of other countries, all I can say is Sweeeet.
          One is not diminished by another's success.

          But I also have to ask - who were the "banksters" and what was done to them?
          (Somehow I doubt there were many politicians among those brought to "justice.")

          A little voice says I should leave this alone, but I am so often wrong that I have to know - what personal liberties do they have in Peru and Iceland that we don't have here?
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  • Posted by  $  jlc 3 years, 8 months ago
    This will be interesting to watch, but I expect his power to change and improve will be in small increments, not in spectacular alterations in budget or philosophy. Politics is, and will always be, a gamed system.

    He has more power now; let's see what he does with it.

    Jan
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      Business as usual and then retire as as millionaire.
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      • Posted by  $  jlc 3 years, 8 months ago
        MichaelA-

        But that is just fine. Human beings are fallible, and as long as he does his job well, I can quote, "Dinna bind th' mouth o'th' kine that tred th' corn." If he negotiates a balance budget and gets our finances under better control, then I will live with human failures.

        If it turns out that he actually has integrity, so much the better. Have you noticed that in SF/Fantasy novels where the world is 'just a little bit better' than our current one, there is often a 'truth machine' (or 'spell')? If we could vet for integrity, or at least minimize lack thereof, we would be better off. We cannot, so we have to work with the tools available.

        Jan
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        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
          Haven't seen it work in 50 years plus. I have no faith in people who have made a living off of us saying one thing and doing another, claiming to be one thing and being another i have absolute one confidence that one fine day in the future you to will learn to check the vaseline for sand when your hear BOHICA. i suppose it doesn't matter as status quo ho hum is not the kind of people I'm looking for. i want that five percent that aren't couch potatoes looking for an excuse. This isn't fiction. People like that killed off 60,000 of us just a few decades ago and the people that put them in office continued to commit second hand murder with their votes. You murdered the troops,you sent out. you murdered the Bill of Rights, you murdered shame and decency and you offer me fairy tales and science fiction? Congress didn't do that the voters did that.

          You weren't worth the effort. You weren't worth fighting for....Your last chance IS people like me and those on active duty....buy...you aren't worth the effort.Truth? You jest? When was the last time that happened. Wayne Morse voting against the Tonkin Gulf Resolution.Fifty years ago. A plague on both two faces of your one party system.

          When and if the military decides to up hold it's oath of office I'm starting to support they do it permanently.
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          • Posted by  $  jlc 3 years, 8 months ago
            Actually, MichaelA, I offered you an interesting idea.

            The world is not going to match your vision of it. The only possibility of positive change lies in incremental improvements within the bounds of reality.

            And - hey - Did I ask you to fight for me? I did my 4 in the USAF...A lot of people who were alive in the US at that time represented philosophies I did not personally care for. This did not determine what I did or what I believed.

            Jan
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          • Posted by  $  3 years, 8 months ago
            Who's "you", Mike?
            Your post sounds treacherously close to a personal attack.

            But I'm sure I'm reading it wrong. What reason would you have to be so rude?
            I mean JLC is one of the good "guys" around here. Totally undeserving of such disrespect.

            ---
            Toss back a couple of stiff ones, smoke a doob or cross your legs in that painful way and say "Uuhhhmmmmm" for 20 minutes.
            What ever it takes.
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            • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
              Zero: Yet... like the mind is pertinent to the individual so is the pain.
              In those rare moments when "the body opens and the soul looks out"
              there is a raw beauty to the truth of that moment and a dignity that cannot be overlooked.

              Each of us expresses our position at any given moment, along with our need and our desire.
              There are different approaches to finding that congruent center within ourselves and, more often than not, can be misunderstood and misinterpreted... The importance is to stay the path.

              Here is a +1 for jlc/Jan and MichaelA.

              Thanks for the great post Zero!
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  • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 8 months ago
    "By their deeds shall you know them."
    Lots of interesting stuff coming up in the congress. It won't take long for us to know what kind of Speaker we have.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
      And who he blames the failure on.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
        Now the answer to that is easy. Every voter who put any of them in office. Ignorance is no longer an excuse Everyone knows what scumbags people like Hillary, Trump, and pick a RINO are. everyone knows it's a rigged, dirty, crooked evil system. The vote for continuance is spelled 'Guilty.'
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        • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago
          But he won't blame the voters. He will blame the 'system' or the democrats or someone who plans to retire and won't run again.
          Besides, if everyone knew what scumbags they all are the game would be over. They don't know because they are brainwashed, distracted, and somewhat naive. Oh, and insane, too.
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      SOS does not mean Save our Souls it means Stuff On a Shingle. He's already established his voting record. RINO disguised as a nice RINO.
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      • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
        Typical slight of hand trick by the Moderate/Establishment (RINO) wing of the Republican party......Stick us with another sad-sack loser.

        Let's see how long it takes him to show that he is either just John Boehner-lite...or maybe a surprise that we can live with.

        My money is on Boehner-lite!
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  • Posted by  $  richrobinson 3 years, 8 months ago
    He may be an improvement over Boehner but the bar was set pretty low. He voted for a budget deal that basically means he will have little to do thru the end of Obamas Presidency. I hope he surprises me but I'm not optimistic.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 3 years, 8 months ago
      Actually, it's a spending ceiling that includes zero spending authority. It only creates a new debt limit. Spending authority ends December 11 and Paul Ryan will be able to start with that.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
        equivocating and waffling and making excuses does not make A = B. Pretty weak First I'll get a card for emergencies but then shoot it's almost Christmas and Ii really want to nice things for my family and OMG the card is maxed out now what. Now what welll. I can get a limit raise I'll only use it for emergencies. Right. Sure. Uh Huh. NOT.
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  • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 3 years, 8 months ago
    What we have is another establishment RINO in a position to put down opposition to the GOP/DNC Ogenda. This will be most obvious when no-brainier, pro-America conservative bills are tossed aside to align policy with the POsTUS Ogenda. Ryan or Bohener = ssdd.

    Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.
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  • Posted by term2 3 years, 8 months ago
    All politicians are pigs. Whatever ideas he spouted before he got elected have probably been toned down so he could GET elected in the first place. Politics follows philosophy as Ayn Rand often said. The typical philosophy in this country is pretty irrational, and we see what happens- Obama for TWO terms.
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  • Posted by  $  Temlakos 3 years, 8 months ago
    Are you sure? I don't think so. I do not accept Paul Ryan as a libertarian. Why did he demand a removal of the motion to vacate the chair? Why does he play footsie with collectivists in the House and Senate?

    When Representative Old Bat (D-San Francisco) starts holding someone to a standard she never could meet, I expect that. But I don't like getting any such hypocrisy from one who pretends to love liberty. I expect honor and integrity. And I just don't see it.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 years, 8 months ago
    Is it possible to be a 'Progressive' Libertarian? cause his voting record doesn't show me Libertarian, even though he knows a little about Ayn Rand. We'll see it he kissy poo's with bamy or not.
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  • Posted by editormichael 3 years, 8 months ago
    Your optimism is commendable, but I would like to see some evidence.
    Yes, I remember Ryan's saying, some years ago, that he had been influenced by Ayn Rand's writing, but Alan Greenspan also said that.
    I was asking at a library several weeks ago for some of her books and was told they were all checked out!
    The librarian told me every time there was a Republican debate, her name would come up and there would be a rush on her work.
    But even when Republicans win elections, we citizens and taxpayers keep losing.
    Taxes rise, governments grow, wars increase, and voters keep getting suckered.
    If you have any evidence Paul Ryan is pro-freedom or pro-free-market, I'd love to see it. Thank you.
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 8 months ago
      On the other hand when they do the death rate of US Service personnel in conflicts they start and manage is 1:18 compared to the wars and conflicts the Democrats start and mis-manage. Common comment in the combat arms. Never go to war with a Democrat in the White House. Very practical reasoning.

      That is from late 1940's Greece to the last few months. Truman gets credit for Korea LBJ for Vietnam, Bush and Bush for Kuwait and Iraq and Obama for Afghanistan. The only rule for professional soldiers is who started or responded to some situation. 18 to is a very strong reason for the professional military - to vote Republican and not Democrat.

      It is not accidental the majority of votes received by the left came a. from the Pentagon and other rear areas and the majority for Republicans came from from front line personnel. The RE in REMF means Rear Echelon.... I wondered with the new abilities, weapons, and equipment if 18:1 would change. That was the only real difference I found between the Left and Right wing of the Left. So far the difference is statistically insignificant.

      Add in WWII the left of the left stands no chance.
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  • Posted by  $  RobertFl 3 years, 8 months ago
    reason[dot]com/blog/2015/10/29/so-how-much-does-newly-minted-speaker-pa

    "Here's what he said to National Review in April: “I reject her philosophy,” Ryan says firmly. “
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    • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
      Of course he does, he is the darling of the NEOCON establishment! He is not Tea Party, he is not a small government R and he is not a true Statesman ala Cicero.

      He is a denizen of the DC Beltway where everything is run by lobbyists and oligarchs. That is the reason that perhaps these folks might stay closer to their principles if they spent more time at home in their districts and only about 2 weeks in DC to actually vote on bills.

      This is how to get our leadership back to sanity and reality. God knows those are two commodities that do not exist in Washington.
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  • Posted by  $  blarman 3 years, 8 months ago
    I wouldn't say that Ryan is either a Libertarian or much of a change. I had great hopes for him when he was pushing the Ryan plan several years ago, but it seems that he has backed away from those ideas because he voted for the most recent budget - which is more of the same-old borrow-and-spend of the political establishment.

    Now that being said, even if all Ryan does is move back to giving the House adequate time to study bills, allowing amendments, and not threatening other Republicans who disagree with him, that will be a good step in the right direction.
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  • Posted by  $  JCLanier 3 years, 8 months ago
    Zero: You've had a long 24 hrs...

    This is what you call walking in to a hornet's nest!

    I have learned some things from your post, it has been most insightful.

    Thank you.
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  • Posted by Timelord 3 years, 8 months ago
    I had such a strong reaction to the headline that I'm replying without reading the other comments...

    Paul Ryan is absolutely not a libertarian! Any libertarian views that he holds are mere coincidence, random intersections with whatever philosophy he might have. You can't even pin a name on his belief system, a mish mash of conflicting values.
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  • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 8 months ago
    I for one think that he is exactly who the Republican establishment really wanted!

    He will be Boehner lite if for no other reason he is a part of the Beltway. Granted every once in a while he sounds Conservative or Libertarian however his voting record indicates something much more "moderate".

    I for one am dubious that he is the leader that the Republican party really needs at this juncture!
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