Some of my best friends are communists

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 2 months ago to Culture
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What makes a "good" person or a "bad" person is (no surprise) personal: within the individual. That is usually hidden from external view and judged only by actions and words in the world. That judgment is also personal: it depends on the person making it.

Consider John D. Rockefeller. Most people who care to know anything about him dislike him. Objectivists admire him, but dislike his having been a church-going Baptist. Would Rockefeller have been a better person as an atheist? You only have to look at Edison to think more than twice about that question.

That is not to say that "one hand washes the other." I believe that the final balance is, indeed, a balance, of admirable qualities versus failures.

What is the essential characteristic?

A productive person will admire the productivity of others. Consider Thomas Edison, Sandra Lerner (Cisco Systems), or Martha Stewart. Edison was not a nice guy, but that is not the essential judgment. None of them were or are paragons of Objectivist virtues - some producers seem to have had no special virtues outside of their work. Consider how we wring our hands over Bill Gates. Yet, Microsoft cannot be denied. I admire
George Soros for his success as a trader. Haters take a different view.

You can find producers and haters in any population, just like short and tall people, no matter how short or tall the group. It is an assumption in social science that however defined, differences _within_ groups are greater than differences _across_ groups. Thus, I have had many friends who were political progressives and born-again Christians, while I have suffer through many libertarian or Objectivist meetings.


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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hmm nifty. I didn't know that was in the Bible. I wonder if it originated there? It's possible to love money above all else and not be evil though.
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  • Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    @maphesdus: "most of them are decent people who just don't understand..." Those are the stupid, or maybe uninformed communists. They can maybe be forgiven. But the smart ones, the ones who know what they're doing, they cannot be forgiven.

    As a libertarian who loathes both GW Bush and Obama people have asked me which one I dislike more. I reply, "Obama." They ask why and I reply, "Bush did bad things but he was a dope and was greatly influenced by others, but Obama is smart and knows what he's doing. That makes him more evil than Bush."
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    1 Timothy 6:10

    Oh, that's right, it's from the Bible, so the Objectivists wouldn't know the actual quote.
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  • -2
    Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    @rlewellen: I would vote you out of existence. The amount of evil you bring into the world is intolerable.
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I actually don't think she is a troll, probably just someone who came here to learn more about objectivism and dislikes how it clashes with religion.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, the actual quote is "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil." I think that still stands. Anyone who places money above all else is likely to corrupt oneself. One must retain a basic morality that often succumbs to the love of money.
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  • Posted by ShruginArgentina 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Anyone who writes "Notice rights are only a concept ." may be a troll.

    The sentence would have had a different meaning with a comma.
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  • Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    @sjatkins: " Being friends with a communist is quite the opposite though... I really can't shake this feeling that they are my enemies,"

    I know exactly what you mean. I had to terminate two friendships because they were such enthusiastic collectivists. The benefits of their friendship didn't even come close to matching the revulsion to everything they stood for.

    I have one other friend I sometimes think I'd prefer not to see any more because of his progressive tendencies but then I remember all his good qualities and I decide to stick with him.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh yes he should be forgiven but he can be forgiven by how he chooses to move forward from there.
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  • Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, of course, rights are only a concept. Just like freedom, slavery, money, civilization, hunger, pain, joy and love are only concepts. What's your point?

    Anything that's not a concrete is a concept. BUT, even concretes have to be backed up by a concept. For instance, one particular chair is a concrete. But for a person to recognize that object as a chair, and other similar but not exact objects as chairs, the mind must have first formed the concept of a chair.

    Rand wrote about that in "Introduction to Objectivist Epistomology." Maybe you should read it.

    Or maybe not because then you might actually learn what Objectivism really means instead of that fantastical version you have in your mind.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Government granted all the power or business granted all the power who is missing in the equation, and what makes that different from communism?
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  • Posted by Macro 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This person is a troll, right? I've been answering to her a few times... But I'm not sure if she's making fun of me for taking her seriously haha.
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  • Posted by MattFranke 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Only a concept" ?!?!?
    Do you have a problem with concepts? Does conceptual thinking make you nervous? Human existence depends on concepts and further, on abstractions based on those concepts.
    Have you any concepts of your own; or do you simply get them pre-fabricated by others??
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  • Posted by Macro 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Please tell me you wrote the characters' names wrong on purpose.

    It was painful to read Reardon... It sounds like hard-on...
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  • Posted by Macro 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Gotta love that one! I used to think money was 'the source of all evil' before reading it.

    How stupid I was...
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  • Posted by mccannon01 11 years, 2 months ago
    It's a good thing to have a wide variety of friends, but it's also important to not take the kum-by-ya stuff too far. Scorpions and rattlesnakes are fascinating creatures, but I don't want them in my bed.
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  • Posted by MattFranke 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You should quit while you' re not to far behind. You don't understand what you're talking about. Please remove cranium from rectum and go actually read Ayn Rand before telling all us Ayn Rand fans what she was about; when you obviously have no clue.
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  • Posted by ShruginArgentina 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thee's a TV commecial here for "openenglish.com."

    It features a bafoon who syas "comonmymany"

    in a western movie seting.

    The correct line would have been, "Make my day."

    My suggestion to rlewellen is that if English isn't your "first language" please get some help...

    Intelligent individuals can only have an intelligent discussion with others who ae capable of expessing themselves in an intelligible manner.
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  • -5
    Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Would you trade one religion for the religion of money to create a global empire that cares only about one right, money.?
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  • Posted by MattFranke 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That comment is complete jibberish and totally incoherent. In no way did you answer Macro's question of 'what is the new world order.' Seems to be your style; evasive, non-committal, distracting. Most of us in the Gulch are here because we are tired of defending Rand's ideals to people who refuse to think all the time. It drives me crazy to have to do it here. I might as well go back to freakin' MSNBC if I wanted to argue with willfully ignorant people.
    You seem to have no concept of Rand or Objectivism, and if you dislike it so much, again I ask, "Wtf are you doing here?"
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  • Posted by mccannon01 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not really, rlewellen. I'm often interested in what you are trying to say, but just as often your sentence structure sucks and I can't make out your point.
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