Some of my best friends are communists

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 2 months ago to Culture
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What makes a "good" person or a "bad" person is (no surprise) personal: within the individual. That is usually hidden from external view and judged only by actions and words in the world. That judgment is also personal: it depends on the person making it.

Consider John D. Rockefeller. Most people who care to know anything about him dislike him. Objectivists admire him, but dislike his having been a church-going Baptist. Would Rockefeller have been a better person as an atheist? You only have to look at Edison to think more than twice about that question.

That is not to say that "one hand washes the other." I believe that the final balance is, indeed, a balance, of admirable qualities versus failures.

What is the essential characteristic?

A productive person will admire the productivity of others. Consider Thomas Edison, Sandra Lerner (Cisco Systems), or Martha Stewart. Edison was not a nice guy, but that is not the essential judgment. None of them were or are paragons of Objectivist virtues - some producers seem to have had no special virtues outside of their work. Consider how we wring our hands over Bill Gates. Yet, Microsoft cannot be denied. I admire
George Soros for his success as a trader. Haters take a different view.

You can find producers and haters in any population, just like short and tall people, no matter how short or tall the group. It is an assumption in social science that however defined, differences _within_ groups are greater than differences _across_ groups. Thus, I have had many friends who were political progressives and born-again Christians, while I have suffer through many libertarian or Objectivist meetings.


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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Christians don't want to push their beliefs on everyone else legally? Are you sure about that...?
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    For crying out loud. Refusing to sanction and naming evil as evil is not "voting it out of existence". Reality is not a matter of voting.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    For giving lip service to ideas they don't understand? No. Not unless they stop doing so.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are worth the trouble to particularly even note the existence of. By their fruits ye shall know them.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Francisco covered that. To love something is to know and deeply value its nature. You still don't seem to get it. Better read it again. :) And why the hell is someone quoting scriptures at me here of all places. There are a lot of pretty evil things in the bible.
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  • Posted by Macro 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well said, Matt. It's truly exhausting to talk to people here who do not understand Objectivism well... The way she talked about money is probably enough evidence to conclude that she didn't even read Francisco's Money Speech.

    But still, help me out here for a moment: I see a contradiction.

    Why would she become a Producer... Why would she fund a movie that's going to show the world more of this ideology she doesn't agree with? Isn't Ayn Rand just a 'money-worshipper antichrist', for her? This is a bit confusing.
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  • Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "I can never forgive these people for ruining his mind so badly." It's worse than that. He allowed his mind to be ruined by refusing to reason or recognize reality.

    I remember when I was very young, high school aged in the 70's, I said to someone, "Communism sounds like a great idea in a perfect world," but even then I was half-hearted about it. At the time I was intrigued by a society that ensured people had what they needed.

    Within a couple of years I registered to vote as a Republican. But I wasn't really interested in politics. Reading the second Dune novel really turned me on to politics. Then I saw Harry Browne speak on C-SPAN during the LP National Convention in 1996.

    I immediately recognized that I was a libertarian. I had never heard of them or what they stood for, but I knew that every single policy he mentioned I agreed with. Every criticism he made of the R's and D's and how government worked I agreed with.

    It was nice to find out there were other people who thought like I did. People whose beliefs were consistent instead of seemingly random.
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  • Posted by Macro 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Similar situation here.

    I have a cousin who's a member of a group called Anti-Capitalism Youth, so, I can't stand being around him anymore, it's hopeless. And he was such a bright young engineer!
    I can never forgive these people for ruining his mind so badly... And now he's even working for the Landless Workers' Movement as well.

    *sigh*

    But yeah, some friends are worth the effort. If their qualities end up being more important to me than their failures, I don't mind it as much. That's true.
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  • Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have wondered the same thing. I don't know the answer. But B's and C's on a xcript, if that's what's there, don't mean he isn't smart.

    I don't want people to get hung up believing that I think Obama's brilliant. I said I think he's smart and I stand by it. I also disagree with every progressive idea that he has and I believe he is willingly destroying mankind.

    My original point was that because he's smart enough to know what he's doing, it makes him evil.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If Obama is so smart why hasn't he released his college records? Why hasn't he published his lectures from his ten years as a lecturer in Constitutional Law? Why would he hide his brilliance?
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    Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because he or she is evil. Evil at that level must not be tolerated. Note that I never said I would murder him but I would vote him out of existence and not give it a second thought.

    People like that are destroying man.
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  • Posted by Timelord 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I do believe he's smart. Smart people can believe lots and lots of silly things, especially things that come from a philosophical viewpoint.

    I met a man recently and I would bet that his IQ is quite high. He was also extremely well informed when it came to national and world events, and he's over 80 so he has a lot of history under his belt. Also very well traveled, all over the world. In spite of those things he's an enthusiastic, vocal and influential progressive. He actually said, right to my face during after-dinner conversation, that he wanted government to force people to take care of people that couldn't care for themselves. He absolutely loves Obama and Obamacare and he's unrepentant about any of the problems.

    THIS man is evil!

    But he also donates hundreds of hours doing pro-bono legal work for the poor. At over 80 years old he just started a new law firm that does nothing but pro-bono work. Only the para-legals and non-lawyer staff will get paid, but not by the clients.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I liked talking to you. There is a page on here about an objectivist constitution go check that out. I will fight to the death to protect the constitution with the Bill of RIghts.
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  • Posted by MattFranke 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    She says that rights derive from property. Property, or money, is only a reflection of a man's right to his life and the effort of it. You are trying to look at the bigger picture of a puzzle by over-analyzing a single piece.
    I will say it again. If you are really interested in it, at the very least, I would recommend that you read Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal if you want a better understanding of the rights of man, the role of government, and why true capitalism is the only just system for man to live under, according to Rand.
    The Lexicon is nice, like a dictionary of ideas. However it lacks the hierarchal structure necessary to comprehend those ideas in a proper context. In order to do that, you will have to do more than to read the cliff-notes of Objectivsm.
    Check out the gulch store( link at the top of the page) for most all of her books.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Now, why would I want to trade something I don't have for something I don't want? I think MattFranke has you summed up rather well. You should heed his advice.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you think Obama is smart, I've got some ocean-front property in southern CO you might be interested in buying.
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