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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years ago
    ? ? ?. This makes no sense.
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      Zen, this post follows Kaila Hallings' post about weapons,
      which implicitly considers that society will constrain weapon ownership.

      here is my last comment there:::

      "we could have dirty bomb
      or biological or chemical attack plans being finalized. . finding
      those people, who are assuredly among us, might be the question. -- j
      p.s. I will pose this as an "ask the gulch" question."

      in a free society whose NSA does not surveil the population
      under the umbrella of a Patriot Act, how might a source of
      weapons of mass destruction be discovered? . would it be
      the self-interest surveillance done by you or me in that society?

      then, next, what criteria would you or I use to decide that
      a perceived threat should be reported? . what degree of
      fear might drive us to rat out a neighbor?

      make sense now? -- j
      .
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      • Posted by broskjold22 10 years ago
        If I understand this correctly, the first question is what limits the extent of weapons ownership by private citizens. That is to say, can a private citizen own a stockpile of advanced weapons or is there a limit weapons ownership based on potential impact of the weapons use? To this question, I would ask you to consider the question: what organization would supply an advanced weapon to a private citizen or to a military that does not respect rational principles? Only a criminal organization.

        Second, if the organization is a criminal one, as you have also described, then criminal action must be legally circumvented.

        Third, if a private citizen is witness to criminal activity, it is in his self interest to report it to law enforcement authorities who can best manage the threat.
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years ago
        john, maybe it's just the way you phrased your question that confused me. But if I'm reading you right, someone's intending to launch a WMD attack, and somehow word of that has gotten out--you're asking what an Objectivist or free society could or would do to find or stop it without a NSA type of mass surveillance.

        Without going into the extreme unlikelihood of such a thing happening in an Objectivist or free society and why it would be so unlikely, let's just look at the NSA part of the question. There has been absolutely no evidence in the last 14 years that the NSA has stopped any such event or preparation for it. Just the opposite in fact, with the recent release of the drone assassination results.

        The second part of your question has to do with the action following the gaining of information about someone (a neighbor) that's perceived to be a threat. If it's just an unsubstantiated suspicion or fear, it's not something that needs to be talked about. Maybe you do a little more observation or even talking to the neighbor yourself to decide if there's reasonable probable cause to believe that a threat really exists. If you can substantiate it to the point you could justify the government intruding into your activities and privacy, then report it--if not, then it's probably none of your business.

        Here's a quote:
        "During World War II the entire nation had been mobilized, all the talk of loose lips sinking ships, the scrap drives, the guards on railroad bridges in Iowa. Much of it was absurd when the threat was finally understood, long after the war was over. There were no legions of spies and saboteurs in America, and the few who were in place or attempted to infiltrate were caught within days by the FBI. There was a threat, and though remote, it was at least acted on back then."
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years ago
    Huh?
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      Kaila asked what the limits might be for weapons, and this is
      a corollary -- who are the limits for weapons? . if we have a
      free society and personal space isn't violated by government,
      it takes us surveilling us to identify dangers. . yes? -- j
      .
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      • Posted by broskjold22 10 years ago
        Again, who sells weapons to anti-rational people? Would you sell your piece to a known criminal? Then how is it that a large weapons manufacturer would do so?
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        • Posted by 10 years ago
          but a manufacturer is usually insulated from the user by
          a supply chain of 1 to 3 levels ... if Smith & Wesson had to vet
          every buyer, they would be very busy. . and no, I would never
          sell a gun to a criminal, but they might steal mine if they
          broke into the place where I keep them. -- j
          .
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