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  • Posted by SaltyDog 8 years, 7 months ago
    Lemme see if I've got this...

    They held the Nuremberg Trials and started hanging the Nazi ringleaders less than a year and a half after the war in Europe. Nazi crimes against humanity were, well, I guess I don't know a word that describes just how heinous and despicable they were. Yet here we have ISIL (or ISIS if you prefer) whose crimes are arguably more barbaric than the Nazis ever were, and after 16 years of it's existence we're only now asking the international courts to look into prosecuting these animals???

    There's something fundamentally dissonant here, and it's not from my position.
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    • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 7 months ago
      You are under-rating that NAZIs. I don't want to be too disgusting but much was made of ISIS beheading children. An eyewitness told of Nazis rounding up children and putting nooses around their necks and hanging them like pictures on a wall. The is no limit to evil's depravity.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 7 months ago
      Humans have been committing heinous acts against each other for millennia. I don't really care what the World Court says because they haven't got anyone who will enforce any action. It's meaningless show.
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  • Posted by bsmith51 8 years, 7 months ago
    ISIS would argue that their crimes are defensive in nature, since they are committed to defend Allah and his prophet.
    In our current world, this "defense" would probably work.
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    • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 6 months ago
      Or, "one man's atrocities are another man's Service To Allah..."

      And that's about all the positive effect I would expect from the 'lawsuit' as described...

      How many ways can we say "zero"?
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      • Posted by 8 years, 6 months ago
        one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. -- j
        .
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        • Posted by bsmith51 8 years, 6 months ago
          Islam is antithetical to our western concept of freedom.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
            Freedom isn't in their lexicon starting with the meaning of the name Islam or Muslim. Submissioin and one who submits. It is a religion for slaves.Top to bottom. They want the clock turned back and a nuclear wall to protect them against time. No sense pulling punches. The only breakaways are slaughtered where they are found. Be it in the mountains of Kurdistan or the streets of Haifa. Treating with an enemy who has flat out stated their desire to convert or kill you is the act of a madman or a traitor. They have much in common with secular progressives who wish the same thing -minus a Godhead. Thus we bring the conversation on track - properly framed. We are not slaves no matter our other differences, Yoda of Berkeley is not a Secular God but a deranged shill for a neo Stalinest scam artist. Two enemies with the same goals. Which both have stated openly. Muslims have ISIS we have ACLU.Enemies foreign and enemies domestic.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 7 months ago
    ISIS is a name that shall forever live in infamy.
    There! I've solved the ISIS problem.
    What else can we talk about?
    Cow farts hurting the climate?
    Fine. Cow farts are bad for the environment.
    There! I've solved the cow fart problem.
    What else can we talk about?
    The Butterfly Effect?
    Fine. Bla, bla, bla, etc.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
      we appreciate your solutions, sir!!! -- j
      .
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 7 months ago
        ISIS needs to be shown what's what.
        So do cows and butterflies.
        The International Criminal Court is here to make a difference.
        We do that by taking up space.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
          Cows are on their s--t list for bovine effluence destroying the ozone layer. I'm not sure what crimes butterflies have committed unless it's flys in the butter.
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          • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 6 months ago
            Before a bug becomes a butterfly, it is a caterpillar eating crop leaves.
            As for the Butterfly Theory (maybe linked to the Chaos Theory), some presume that a butterfly flapping its wings in Tokyo could cause a tornado in Nebraska. Or vice versa.
            Whoa wait a minute, ding! ding! ding!
            Old Dino just came up with--ta da--The Cow Fart Theory!
            If a cow--well, you can figure the rest out.
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            • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 6 months ago
              Got it! If a butterfly smells a cow fart and flaps its wings differently as a result, massive climatic effects can be blamed on cows!

              Brilliant....
              oh, wait...
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              • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 6 months ago
                A cow fart alone could start a chain action of air movement that grows, grows and grows into another Hurricane Katrina.
                So chickens with signs should say: "Eet mo kow."
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                • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 6 months ago
                  Thank you both, Michael and Allo...

                  Some months ago, my step-grandson and I pursued the 'logic' of a question/problem he described, using the Critical Thinking / Socratic Method to seek The Root Cause of the Problem he brought to the (lunch) table.

                  I've claimed that 'normally,' if you drill down at least five or six layers of "Well, Why Is THAT?" into an issue, you can approach Root Cause, from which real cures and solutions Might Be formulated.

                  With the issue he brought up (I don't remember what the Issue was, but that's not the issue here.. ) we drilled down for at least 45 minutes, and by his count (I lost track at around 8-10 levels 'down,' we were at least 12-15 layers into the onion and hadn't come close to Root Cause.

                  Yep, as so many writers are adding to TV scripts today, "it's complicated."

                  No shit! My gripe has been, for at least five or more years, that the MSM never goes more than one layer deep before claiming Root Cause and what they call Root Cause is NEVER the True Root Cause in any actionable way that might lead to a change in behavior or results regarding the Original Problem.

                  The butterfly-cow-bull-whatever list I started and you expanded is a Very Good Example of why 'it's complicated.'

                  And why I just LOVE 'asking questions' on various fora.

                  Thanks!
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
                Now now make haste slowly. One assumes the fault is the cow's but what if the bull caused the effluvium mechanically. Do we blame the bull? Islam would blame the cow. Which is why they don't have them. Who ever heard of camels causing such an astronomic problem?

                Or is it the fault of the farmer not providing proper sustenance? Remember it's a Green question. Greens traditionally are leftists. Leftists are in power therefore are now conservative or at least conservatively liberal in their nature and protective of their newly won turf. Land mines, barb wire, all sorts of stuff it's enough to make cow flop. Which brings us back to sustenance so maybe...maybe....it's a turf war between cows and camels but it will take further study and by the way an increase in grant funding.

                That really smells! It's the damn eco scientists all the time.
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  • Posted by evlwhtguy 8 years, 7 months ago
    I bet them ISIS Guys are real sceeart! The international court, which like the UN has 0 soldiers and 0 ability to enforce anything, is really going to get serious about them!
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
    Looks like the US, France, and Russia are taking the lead on this one. Three more unlikely to form a coalition scarcely exist. Thread on the renewed Air Attacks by Russia and France under the NEW category
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago
    The answer of course is rehire Bubble Butt as a consultant. He can already parse IS. IS IS should be no problem and pay twice as much.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 7 months ago
    The Nuremburg trials I think were just to appease the Jews desire to keep the Nazi's atrocities from being hidden. It was expensive and lengthy, and didnt really cover but a few of the ringleaders- the rest got away.

    As to ISIS, its just one side of a religious conflict between Shiites and Sunnis. I say leave them to settle it themselves and WE SHOULD STAY OUT OF IT. How could we possibly add anything to that conflict that we arent a party to and dont even understand. I am tired of the US getting into wars all over the place where theres nothing for us to gain.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 7 months ago
      Don't enlist? Join the anti-draft law movement? The trials were for much more than that although it was a good enough stand alone reason. Up until recently anyway it set the standard of types of defenses. "I was only following orders" became a voluntary and open admission of guilt coupled to a plea for clemency or reduction in sentence. As for the Nazi's like the Communists they converted to straight up left wing socialist fascism and became democrats. Birds of a feather flock together. It's all a matter of degrees of incrementalism. Let none call them RINOs
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 7 months ago
        For some reason I reject the "only following orders" defense. I think if you pull the trigger because someone "told you to", you are guilty also. I tend to think that the so called leader isnt as responsible as people think just because he "told them to do it". But thats just my thoughts on it and what I would do if left to my own devices in dealing out justice.

        It does get a bit more complicated if the person who is told to shoot has a gun to HIS head from his "boss". Maybe the thing to do is shoot the boss if you can instead of the victim.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
          I tried your "shoot the boss" suggestion in an industrial
          environment. . my boss dealt with competition like BHO does --
          he undermined them and ran them out of the competition.
          I exposed his technique after I discovered it, and
          we were both run off from the organization. . I was
          moved out laterally and he was compelled to retire. -- j
          .
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          • Posted by term2 8 years, 7 months ago
            Maybe the 'shoot the boss" only works if you instructed to do something really bad, like kill someone else in cold blood. Shooting the boss is a last ditch effort in a life or death situation. In the case of your issue, you were a whistleblower, and companies dont like whistleblowers. I suppose finding another job is the only fix to that problem.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 6 months ago
              I called that out, when I had been there 15 years, and
              retired after 18 more -- three more job titles -- so the story
              continued. . I still know several of them, and we are friends
              to an extent. . oh, the tales which could be told....... -- j
              .
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    • Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 6 months ago
      So, before you say that (oops, you've already said that...), what evidence can you present to us that Jews had anything to do with the Nuremburg Trials? The few remaining Jews that were just freed from extermination and on the verge of starvation, not allowed by the British into Palestine, not accepted by any country in the world, somehow engineered the Nuremburg Trials? Please explain.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 6 months ago
        I didn't actually claim the trials were engineered BY the "jews". It just appeared that they were done so as to not let the atrocities in the nazis just be hidden There have been atrocities committed by other despots like Stalin and the Cambodian guy (Pot?). That haven't gotten the focus of public trials but I believe we're just as deadly
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
          Just to settle a second follow on point in advance. When the vote on partition of Palestine was taken in the 'United Nations there were two ways to say yes. Many nations voted Yes De Jure meaning it was the legal and right thing to do. The USA voted yes De Facto meaning they are in fact there.

          During WWII the Roosevelt Government routinely withheld recognition, denied the evidence as it mounted, denied Katyn Forest evidence which indicted the Russians for that massacre, and denied sancturary for those escaping Hitler's Germany. The British routinely after the war turned back refugee ships leaving Europe for Palestine. The French government during the war was openly anti-semitic and the British also. Palestine was a sanctuary for the survivors but the Allies were not protectors.

          The USA involved in Nuremberg because of overwhelming public opinion when the stories broke. Nuremberg was chosen because it was home of the Nuremberg Laws which stripped German citizens (Jews) of all rights including property rights. I will go so far as to say if it were not for oil the attitude in Washington DC would be far different as to the Middle East's Muslim population and were it not for it's shameful and well publicized role in World War II would have been far different for Israel. Along with being the world's largest practitioner of Apartheid to this day the Districts skirts were and are far from clean as are the skirts of Europe who used those populations as cheap labor much as we have done with the population of Mexico. In the latter version the US unions are as much to blame as the U
          S Government en toto both previously separate parties and the indifference of the voting population.

          Pol Pot and Stalin and German and others regimes actions while reprehensible are no less acceptable than those getting less unfavorable publicity today. Human slavery to any degree is human slavery no matter if in Syria or in the lower 48 and no matter the treatment or substandard wage levels. Well the US businesses and house hold got their cheap labor and had their cheap hamburgers and now that's gone. The unions had their closed shop sweetheart rules with preferential contract treatment....that should be the next target. Repeal of Davis-Bacon act and open bidding. Right To Work laws made the law of the land. Sherman Anti-Trust II applied to labor as well as corporations. The US Governments support of human trafficking curtailed.

          The trouble with pointing a finger is the three hidden fingers reflecting our own national policies.

          Indian Reservations? Another name for apartheid.
          Cheap Mexican Labor and depressed US wages?
          No labor representation nor protection for the majority of US workers?
          US Gov't support of racism, sexism,ethnic and religious intolerance and the world wide sex trade human trafficking?
          and one ignored Constitution

          And we end up with looters and moochers like Hillary and Trump as leading candidates.

          and one ignored Constitution

          and wonder why?

          That's the context of our times. We aren't responsible for the past we are responsible for the now.
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          • Posted by term2 8 years, 6 months ago
            Sounds like you have great interest in history and a lot more knowledge on these subjects than I do. I have thought for awhile that humans seem to just look for power over other humans any way they can get it- whether from honest innovation and competition, or a myriad of far less honorable and manipulative ways. Government powers have been used for all sorts of power grabbing hidden agendas and cronyism. Even though the USA had a constitution, it was ignored from the start whenever it was convenient Religious freedom was ok except for the hated Mormons. Territories were invaded and Indians "resettled" in a quest for more land. . And then there was the civil war to put down the south which seemingly just wanted to not be ruled by the "union". It's been a very unclean past. I want trump for 4 years to expose what goes on. He is the only one that doesn't care about political correctness and might actually tell it like it is. More than 4 years could be bad for his crony capitalistic leanings though
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
              I found a four book set on Forgotten History in the Kindle Store section I believe I'm going to order those up on pay day...that's tomorrow. Wow Order at midnight plus one and start reading at midnight plus five!

              Dump Trump we already have a Democrat Candidate.
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              • Posted by term2 8 years, 6 months ago
                I am so tired of manipulation and political correctness. I want someone who will tell us when the emperor has no clothes for a change. 4 years would be good for that. The US is really a business and should be run that way
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
        Just a quick search of the obvious places I found one reference in one of those holocaust denial neo-Nazi places out of 20 sites checked. I'd be more inclined to look for the opposite viewpoint in the US State Department back then easy search.
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        • Posted by strugatsky 8 years, 6 months ago
          The truth is that neither the Holocost, nor the Jews, had anything to do with the Nuremberg Trials. The Trials were actually orchestrated by Stalin and the Allied were pulled into the scheme, without realizing it. The main object was to prove Nazi aggression against Europe in general and the Soviet Union in particular. That way, Stalin's agrression against Poland, the Baltic States and Finland, as well as his plans to "liberate" Europe from his friend Hitler could be swept under the rug. It worked.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
            Uncle Joe was a sly ibw also Nikita K. for cover up mistakes. Only one's better are in Iran. Anyway no evidence to contrary except from crazies.Stalin kill off all opposition to Oct. revolution then kill off all non communist who supported it.
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            • Posted by SaltyDog 8 years, 6 months ago
              I had read somewhere that Nikita was in on poisoning old Joe, and he and several others were drinking in the next room waiting while the "Man of Steel" slowly died. Not that he didn't deserve it, but that's pretty cold.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 6 months ago
                I imagine similar scenes played out in the room next to Boehner's office as he suffered his political death. Or did he. He said he would resign...after some key votes. Did he say resign from politics? Remember Arlen Specter? All he has to do is resign membership in the Dumbos and switch to the Demos and McConnell as the wagging tail. No real difference RINO = Democrat.


                Politician's all. Then and now.
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