One of my favorite writers discusses Immigration

Posted by  $  Zero 3 years, 10 months ago to Politics
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Tracinski was the last editor of "The Intellectual Activist" - a newsletter I cut my OBJ teeth on. All his work is worth reading.
SOURCE URL: http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/24/is-immigration-a-threat-to-our-culture/


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  • Posted by sdesapio 3 years, 10 months ago
    Tracinski is widely recognized as one of the most knowledgable Objectivists on the planet. We actually brought him in as a consultant when developing Atlas Shrugged 3.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 10 months ago
    BS. I am tired of making the same rational case to those who are too stupid to study history and use rational thought for analysis of the current environment. Seriously, if the author wants to live in a latin culrure, just go live there for a decade before preaching open border suicidal rubbish. Would open borders be a good thing if every country had them? Yes. Is that going to be the case if the US opens borders? NO Will the freebies disappear if borders are opened? NO
    What will result if those freebies are not removed first? Look at the past 30 years for a recent example. But you have a holy crusade, so why bother with reality.
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    • Posted by  $  3 years, 10 months ago
      Rational people can disagree, FFA.
      It doesn't require idiocy, ineptitude or maliciousness.

      There are OBJ's who'd never vote for a Republican and others who never fail too.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 10 months ago
        As an objectivist and strictly that viewpoint applied why would I vote for a Republican which is a decidedly straight up left wing fascist socialist oriented party? And a weak one at that. Why do I draw that line? They are pro government control of citizens ergo sum leftists, They support the left wing of the left and strike three helped create a single party system.

        Three strikes you're out. They were tested, failed the tests and serve no useful purpose. They are neither the greater nor the lesser of the evils - just a willing part of the wrong side.

        I also use the Constitution as the center not the contrived middle of the left. the others you referred to get to have their own opinion Unlike the left we are not lock step fascists.
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  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 3 years, 10 months ago
    The contradiction in this article is obvious. Based on the article and one of its links, it is OK for Europe to be concerned about its immigration situation, but it's not OK for the US.
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  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
    Right. Having done some due diligence and skipping snowmobiling I looked at the list and decided to ask where to start? I was expecting books but they do come in many forms. The front covers evoked interest but I'd like the first introduction to give a lasting impact. So....pick one and I'll buy it. Or two or three. Thanks Edit and a thought. The one that had his discussion on the points in the comment Mark Hunter made if you can zero in on that please.
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  • Posted by Lucky 3 years, 10 months ago
    Interesting. The writer is correct in distinguishing the tide now swamping Europe from the stream into the US from Mexico. The first is, as I see it, people who detest the culture and the people who receive them.
    The Latinos culture, such as it is, is just a variant of American. Lazier and more fatalistic maybe, but those making the trip are the more enterprising, more capable, than those left behind. Their dreams and aspirations are much as those of Americans.
    (At this distance) I think they can be integrated and can turn out well, but it depends.
    Even more important than welfare cuts, abolish the minimum wage.

    I have seem migrants in several countries-
    the first job is always remembered, the first dollar earned is treasured.
    Remove the barriers that make it hard to get work.
    You may have to wait for the next generation but the contribution will be as high as any.

    I still think that nations must retain the ability to select migrants. This includes the right to make mistakes, a blanket-no- is a big mistake.
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  • Posted by MarkHunter 3 years, 10 months ago
    Tracinski says we “... often hear the claim that allowing ‘amnesty’ for illegal immigrants will create tens of millions of new voters for the Democratic Party.” But, Tracinski says, don’t worry because “... not all of them will choose to devote the time and expense required to follow it. Of those who do, not all will vote, ...” Let’s interrupt right there. Obvisously he himself thinks that their not voting is desirable.

    He continues: ”and of those who do vote, believe it or not, they don’t all vote in lockstep.” Lockstep is a strawman. Nobody says they vote in lockstep. What is true is that most of them vote for the most socialist candidate. See
    http://Google.com/search?q=2008+immig...
    for the statistics.

    Tracinski concludes his paragraph as if he had proved his case: “So much for the great Democratic Party conspiracy to use immigrants to seize a majority.” Actually they themselves admit it. For example here is James Carville after the 2010 midterm election, gloating over “demographics” – by which he means “immigration results”:
    “When you get into a presidential electorate, it decidedly favors Democrats, and every year it’s going to decidedly favor them more and more. ... Demographics don’t do anything but get better for Democrats. Every election becomes less white.”
    The quote is from “Dem Strategists: Obama bungled 2010” by David Catanese, http://Politico.com, November 18, 2010. The bungling refers to the Democrats having lost many Congressional seats in the midterm elections.
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    • -1
      Posted by MarkHunter 3 years, 10 months ago
      Tracinski goes on to say that the cultural case against immigration “is really a complaint about Hispanic citizens, who usually vote for Democrats by about [actually more than] two to one, and black citizens, who usually give more than 80% of their vote to Democrats.” He forgot to mention Asians: according to the Widipedia article on the 2012 election demographics 73% of the Asians voting opted for Obama.

      Tracinski claims these people vote like that because they hear us saying we don’t want more such people who vote like that!

      He thinks Hispanics etc. are justified in voting socialist to spite our unwelcoming attitude. He calls our prediction that immigrants tend to vote socialist a self-fulfilling prophecy. He implies that if only we praised these immigrants they would change their vote from the most socialist candidate to the most capitalist.

      As the comedian said, I am not making this up.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 10 months ago
        Some of that is not racism but ethnic or cultural or religious objection. Some of it is sorting out an ethnically and culturally confusing society such as up the Kurdistan area. And some people react out of fear. If someone is playing the race card as blanket condemnation they are themselves racist kind of like Hillary claiming to be a feminist when she took the opposite path while in the White House with Cute Butt. No need to help the government promote it.
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      • -1
        Posted by Zenphamy 3 years, 10 months ago
        This comment is racist and statist tripe. At least have the intellectual honesty to admit your anti-objective and Fascist Nationalist proclivities.
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        • -1
          Posted by MarkHunter 3 years, 10 months ago
          If my comment is racist, etc. then so is Tracinski’s article.

          I took what Tracinski wrote and paraphrased it in a forthright manner that better revealed its absurdity.

          The trouble with Tracinski is that he’s too smart for his own good, LOL.
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  • -1
    Posted by MarkHunter 3 years, 9 months ago
    Continuing our litany of Tracinski’s errors: he uses the wrong verb tense.

    He refers to “preserving our culture ... from being diluted by hordes of newcomers who were raised in an alien culture ...” Elsewhere he refers to “Those who whip up fear of a cultural takeover by immigrants ...” He refers to “danger” etc, as if the problem were in a future that – he argues – will never come.

    Yet in many places in America the culture has already been diluted, even taken over. Whole neighborhoods, even cities, have had their culture transformed by Third World immigration. It contradicts Tracinksi’s theorizing about a future that’s already begun to happen.
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  • -1
    Posted by MarkHunter 3 years, 10 months ago
    Tracinski commits a logical fallacy in his second paragraph, where he considers the proposition:
    Immigrants “raised in an alien culture that doesn’t value liberty” will overwhelm our culture.

    He tries to disprove this proposition by claiming that the “native-born citizens’ commitment to liberty” is lacking.

    But that doesn’t address the proposition. Whatever the average native-borns’ commitment to liberty, if Tracinski wants to show that they will not be overwhelmed he needs to show that the Third World immigrants’ commitment is not less than theirs. (In fact it is less. Ann Coulter gives a lot of evidence in her book Adios, America.)
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  • -2
    Posted by MarkHunter 3 years, 9 months ago
    Two more points ...

    Trancinski says “The United States is a ... stable nation and can absorb seemingly large numbers of people without much political impact.”

    Seemingly to whom? He says this ex cathedra. It’s so obviously false it is its own reductio ad absurdum.

    Trancinski says “Corruption and patronage in politics are not ‘Third World’ imports. They have been part of American politics since the beginning and were arguably much worse in the 19th century ...”

    Remember, Trancinski makes this part of his argument for Third World immigration. He’s saying the U.S. politics is as corrupt as Mexico, Guatemala, China, etc. Of course it isn’t, not by a long shot.
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