Good point. It is getting harder and harder to justify being a "law abiding" citizen these days.

Should they quit if they believe themselves to be good people? Or should they "Go off the reservation" and continue to wear the badge and do as "they" please?

To the extent they are enforcing tyrannical laws they are evil. The "just following orders" excuse does not work.

I believe that what happened to Garner in New York
was wrong (the arrested man who died; he had been put in a chokehold). But I don't think it has
been put on trial yet, and I am not sure it will be.

Every month when I go to an Objectivist meet-
ing, I get stopped by a cop. I can't drive (epilepsy); so I put my bike on a bike rack on
the GRTC (Richmond city) bus, ride out to a
certain shopping center, and bike from there to
a certain restaurant (which takes maybe about
45 minutes). Afterwards, on my way back to
the shopping center, some cop always stops
me to criticize the bike light (flashlights at this
time, can't afford regular), or gives patronizing
counsel about the danger from car drivers, etc.
But I behave politely and respectfully, and even-
tually get to the bus stop.--Still, I wouldn't call
that police brutality.
I think sometimes the cops are wrong, some-
times the suspects are wrong. Cameras are
probably a very good idea.

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. . . .[P]ass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers.
-- Dr. Floyd Ferris, Atlas Shrugged

Thanks! Best explanation I ever remember of the situation. And, perhaps, why Xenok and xthinker see things so differently. I would use "peaceable" instead of "law abiding" though.

I think the Oklahoma City police chief is approaching the body cam issue the right way. He had private meetings with his force about the subject, with city attorneys who explained how valuable the video will be in providing evidence of proper police conduct. He also pointed out to them how the camera would record things that the officer doesn't always have the liberty to remember, which could aid in establishing criminal activity. He also worked out the guidelines for disclosure to the public, so the officers were assured they wouldn't be subject to unending second guessing by sensationalist news media. The result is that the OKC police are actually looking forward to the program, with strong public support.

Zen, regarding #10 on your list, I was stopped by the TN
highway patrol a few years ago as I drove down the shoulder
to make a right turn past a long line of traffic which was
going straight. . the trooper asked me if I knew why I was there.
I answered, "I am going home." . he explained that it was
illegal to pass the stopped traffic by driving on the shoulder........
then, he asked to see my license. . I slowly retrieved it from
my wallet and gave it to him. . he asked, "Do you have anything
on this license?" . I replied that I must wear glasses
and that I am permitted to drive a motorcycle. . he explained that
he meant any recent infractions. . I replied, "No, not in the
past 10 years or so." . he let me go with a verbal warning.

these guys speak a language all their own. . what's a henway?
oh, about seven pounds. -- j
.

The police may not be bad guys...(?)...but I am afraid of them. I can fight back against a criminal, but I am not allowed to fight back against a cop doing exactly the same thing.

Down this thread, there is a comment and a link by IamtheBeav. I think that if cops wore cameras, as the experiment in Rialto shows, then they would behave in a better manner.

Jan

Thank you for your analysis.

Jan

hello Iam
You are right about bad cops can't exist as long as the majority are good cops. It is the very long tradition of covering up the bad cops that throws everything off. The 90% good cops are tainted by their willingness (with some exceptions) to put up with the miscreants in order to avoid being a rat or being shunned.

+1! I wish it could be more!

It doesn't even need to be martial law in any formal sense. The most likely endgame I see is one where cops in America behave like the cops in most of Latin America always have -- they stand around on street corners armed with machine guns, and if you attract their attention you will probably regret it, because they don't like you. And you have to bribe them to get any help at all from them.

I don't either. But it's the cops who declared war on us, and they're still doing nearly all the shooting. If they don't stop, the war will go on.

Starbucks thread ... let's see ... I must have missed something.

oh. . I see now. . ask the gulch. . all non-conservatives. -- j
.

I read the title of this thread just before I saw the story about three cops being arrested for killing a suspect in custody. That's on top of the CBS report that the cop who complained to her boss and the media that a teenage Arby's employee refused to serve her, culminating in calls by police to have the young man fired...only to find out the cop misunderstood a joke and the young man did absolutely nothing wrong.
So are cops the bad guys? More and more....

Isn't it strange that the "I ain't no snitch" mentality is precisely the same as the bad guys and gang members? The police are more like a fraternity that automatically gives slack to fellow brothers and sisters (mostly brothers).
I'd say that 90% of police are good people doing a difficult job to the best of their ability. However, it's that bad 10% that defines them, which is unfortunate. If the current wave of cop killings grows, it will cause an increase in lawlessness as the police hold back in order to keep themselves out of danger. This is right up the alley of those who wish to foment revolution and the dissolution of American freedom. If this builds to martial law, stick a fork in America -- it's done.

I thought that you owned the company ... what an unusual
example you set, young woman, for the employees there. -- j

I AM JOKING.
.

So, I've read the referenced article, the referenced WaPo data base, and the comments on this post. I then compared the WaPo data against another data base, "Killed By Police - 2015". The two data bases are dramatically different with WaPo making the cops look much less dangerous, much more justified in their actions, and report significantly less fatalities. A couple of points I'd like to suggest that others consider.

The article compares the 'Black Lives Matter' BullS$!t to the problem of police killing citizens. As if the lies and actions of the 'BLM' movement compare in anyway to the lies and actions of police in this country. The author then goes on to 'cherry pick' certain data from WaPo and to falsify other information allegedly gleaned from WaPo in an attempt to justify his 'Cops are Great Guys' nonsense.

Some things are indisputable:
1. The ratios of males killed as a percentage of their representation in the population is dramatically higher than that of females.
2. The highest ethnic ratio of number of killings by police as a percentage of their representation in the population is Native American.
3. The second highest is African American.
4. Asian American is insignificant.
5. The numbers of children and teens killed is atrocious.
6. The numbers garnered so far this year tell the story of the number of lies and hidden reports told by police and the DoJ, since Congress in 1993(?) directed DoJ to begin accumulating such information, as reported to the American Public since that time.
7. The danger to cops doesn't even make the top ten most dangerous jobs in this country.
8. Americans are much more likely to be killed by American cops than by any form of terrorism.
9. Cops have become drastically more aggressive towards American citizens than at any time in our history.
10. Americans who don't offer immediate supplicating compliance to a cop are in lethal danger regardless of the reason or cause of the interaction.

And most disgusting of all, this country bears very little resemblance to the country envisaged by our revolutionary founders or as imagined by AR, and there are a number of commenters and posters on this site that defend what we've become, and those amongst us that initiate force against us to make us comply.

Too many laws on the books that serve no purpose but to pit "us" against "them". The more the laws, the more the division until the division becomes self perpetuating. And a cause for more laws. Just as the corrupt crony capitalist system attracts more and more cronies on both sides of the system, corrupt, immoral and unjust laws attract corrupt, immoral and unjust people to the police department and make criminals out of the rest of us so that we have more and more contact with the corrupt elements of law enforcement. If you are a law abiding citizen the only contact you are likely to have with law enforcement is with someone trying to throw his weight around. You will never meet the cop who doesn't care if you're doing 5 to 10 MPH over the limit. Only the guy who wants to "make an example out of you" for doing 2 mph over. And the more laws there are, the more you will run into him.

It's almost like someone wants us to not trust each other.

Didn't bother to read your post past this line "Now YOU are in a completely different conversation" since you need to re-read the article that was posted, or more likely read it for the first time. Also the title kinda gives it away as well.

This thread was not about corrupt police but about the fact that they are being targeted for blame by the left.

It seems to me that you may have more in common with this guy than you have in common with me on the subject of police.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governme...

Conversation is over.

When I embezzle a roll of toilet paper from the office, I generally run through the halls, yelling, "MWAHAhaha! I am embezzling toilet paper!" People pop out of their offices to applaud/shake their heads sadly. I often get comments on what an embezzlement piker I am.

Jan

Well clearly we are not in the conversation as one could not imagine more ridiculous conclusions to draw than the three you just drew.

Well your response tells me three things.

"1) Blinders are convenient for you. Cops are being asked and trained to do things they should not accept or do and cops who ignore those things are breaking the law. That has everything to do with Nazi Germany it is how Nazi power and control was established."

Now YOU are in a completely different conversation. We are talking about police corruption and police doing illegal things and you are arguing that they should be breaking the law. That is a complete non sequiter from the rest of the discussion and from the topic at top.

"2) The Reardon example is completely relevant to the point I am making which is that laws are currently broken and cops are asked to follow laws and have attitudes they should not have."

Wow. Now you are really off the deep end and in the lala land of a completely different conversation. My point has been that cops that ignore and tolerate bad and corrupt behavior are themselves bad cops. The concept really isn't that difficult to understand although it might be for an obvious moral relativist like yourself.

You now seem to be saying that bad and corrupt behavior by cops is good because it's analogous to what Reardon and Danager did in breaking the law about metal sales. I'm sorry but a cop ignoring or tolerating the fact that another cop is a thief, or beat a suspect, or shot an innocent unarmed person is completely different from Reardon and Danager violating laws that they believe shouldn't exist. But hey - I guess your Nazi gestapo snitch analogy means that cops should ignore any misbehavior by other bad cops. I hope you're not a cop but am beginning to wonder.

"3) You and I are not even in the same conversation I am in. You are talking about obvious breaking of natural law. IE Cop pulls his gun shoots a guy and covers it up. I am not. I am talking about some procedural crap that is in place and perhaps should or should not be followed. The obvious stuff is just that obvious and need not be discussed."

You finally realized that you are having a conversation different than the rest of the people in this thread/topic? Duh. Captain Obvious. Or is it Police Captain Obvious. Did you even read the article at the top. It is talking about the statistics about cop misbehavior in serious violent ways and the poster made the statement that cops are not the bad guys. I responded to that and said that some of them are the bad guys. And those among the police that tolerate those bad guys are bad guys as well. Pretty simple concepts.