14

Checking my premises

Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago to The Gulch: General
229 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I was unsure as to whether I would title this, "Unlearning what I have learned" or "Checking my premises", because in it, I have done both. A couple of recent posts by AmericanGreatness and Eudaimonia, along with a couple of posts from 1-2 weeks ago are relevant.

I have long thought that the US military was an agent for liberation from totalitarian regimes. Now should I think they are mere pawns of their political masters, most often performing altruism to societies that do not appreciate their presence?

I had long thought that having a strong military meant having a strong national defense. After seeing 67 out of 70 purposeful attempts by TSA employees to evade TSA screening in a "test" of TSA security, I know differently. Moreover, the strong military and even the border agents were unable to protect us from an invasion of illegal immigrants because the one holding the leash kept the military and border agents on so tight a leash that they were unable to do what used to be their job.

I had long thought (because I had thought that the US military was an agent for liberation from totalitarian regimes) that the US had the "moral high ground". I still think that abortion is not the best moral decision and have been criticized (perhaps rightly) within the Gulch for that opinion. Moreover, I see a commentator (sorry, but I forget whom) on FoxNews suggest that America has lost the "moral high ground" in light of the Planned Parenthood situation (The commentator said that Muslims must consider us barbarous for having so many abortions. The term barbarous ironically is derived from the Barbary Pirates in Libya.).

I'm just checking my premises.


All Comments


Previous comments...   You are currently on page 9.
  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think the baron equated "pig dog" to cowardice since he was speaking of fighter tactics back when a pilot's life expectancy was two weeks.
    Cowardice can lead to poor choices in life.
    An example would be fear of being belittled or disowned by one's peerage for being the reason to do something against one's conscience.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If a fetus had "human rights" as the religionists claim, then it would be the function of the government to protect them. Their agitation demanding a ban on abortion any time after conception, often bans on preventing conception, and criminal investigations into Planned Parenthood are based on a false, mystical morality.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The vast majority of Americans were opposed to entering WWII before Pearl Harbor. But they were not silenced after the attack, they knew at that point that it was necessary.

    What they didn't know was the extent of Roosevelt's behind the scenes maneuvering to get into it. But Roosevelt wasn't antagonizing Japan because he wanted a war. Japan was already antagonistic, as illustrated by its atrocities in China. Roosevelt expected war with Japan, but wasn't relishing it as war for its own sake in the manner of a Hitler. He could have avoided it by withdrawing from Asia but did not want to abandon legitimate interests there and at least correctly saw that the growing Japanese empire was the evil. Secretly anticipating war with Japan in that context, he was only careful to avoid being the initiator; he wanted it to be clear that Japan was the attacker against the US.

    He knew that Japan would attack but did not know where and was expecting it to be somewhere in the far east, not Hawaii. The Japanese codes had been broken but encrypted messages revealing Pearl Harbor were languishing in the bureaucracy.

    Roosevelt's everlasting legacy of irresponsibility was in not being prepared for a major war he knew was coming and did not try to avoid, setting us up for the travesty of the Pearl Harbor attack wiping out most of the fleet. If the Japanese had started farther in the east without Hawaii, Roosevelt would have been just as unprepared.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by jabuttrick 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    While I have in the past contributed money to Planned Parenthood and am pro-choice, I adamantly oppose government funding of the group. It doesn't make any difference to me that the government support is supposedly limited to non-abortion related activities. I would love to see a single politician take the same position. Anyone know of any who do?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 9 years, 9 months ago
    Jim in the 1972 presidential election, the Marxists, having recently taken over the Democratic party, made their first attempt to put one of their own into the Oval office. Their chosen one, George McGovern, had as his major foreign policy agenda a plan to scrap the entire U.S. Navy both over water and underwater ships as a gesture to the USSR to show them we meant them no harm. He would have kept a few for the Coast Guard to control drug and other smuggling.
    You see the Socialists recognize what many of we Americans do not; viz. to destroy America it is not enough to control the schools, courts, borders, and Congress - they must also disarm us in the face of our enemies.
    The problem is not with your premises, rather a failure to take a clear-eyed look at the nature of our common enemy and his plan for our future..
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by jabuttrick 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Since schweinehund literally means "pig dog" I'm not sure if this reflects a positive sense of self.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by jabuttrick 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The United States Marshalls Service is funded by Congress, not the Supreme Court. So Chief Justice Marshall could not have "expanded" the federal marshals as you suggest.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 9 months ago
    Dr. Jim, it is all political -- whether it's about abortions or
    about the military conducting altruistic campaigns in countries
    where we are not considered allies. . IMHO, we must consider
    the political angles first, to understand Their Premises. -- j
    .
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, you are not "there". But "becoming and not there yet" is the wrong way to think of it. The goal is to understand, not to "become". When you understand and act accordingly, you are whatever that is, just as you are whatever you are during any process. Understanding a philosophy enough to know what it is and that it is right and what you want is not like deciding to "become" and engineer or a scientist.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by GaryL 9 years, 9 months ago
    I don't even know how to think on issues like planned parenthood and abortion. We are long past that stage in life but we both seem to agree that abortion is not in the realm of governmental function and should be left to the individual, their family and their God. Certainly no government financing of this procedure. Who am I to force my will upon anyone and if I don't play the game I have no right to make the rules. This should not be a dollar and cents question although I think I should have the right to withhold my tax dollars being used for that which I disagree with and that does include many other government expenditures such as foreign aid to countries and regimes that hate us. Would I loan my money to a close friend or family member for an abortion or to support their drug habit, NO! I do however believe that abortion is a necessary evil and can think of at least one individual that would have been an excellent candidate.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 9 months ago
    I've always tried to follow my conscience.
    But now by age 68, I do have regrets to look back upon.
    The late great Baron von Richthofen (Snoopy's nemesis) once spoke of an "inner schweinehund" one must always overcome.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 9 months ago
    The US military was never "an agent for liberation from totalitarian regimes." It is and has always been a tool of the US government. In the past, the US government has often chosen to act as an agent for liberation from totalitarian regimes (Korea, Berlin airlift, for example), sometimes successfully, but recently more often neither successfully, nor wisely (Iraq and others).
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago
    I think it would be helpful to note which portions of the Federal Bureaucracy actually fall under the umbrella of the "military". Not that I think you have necessarily mischaracterized any, but to verify where authority and responsibility ultimately lie.

    I think we can all agree that the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines constitute what most people think of as our active military dealing with armed conflict. The others you mention, however, are more police roles, such as the Coast Guard, Border Patrol, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA). That being said, ultimately ALL fall under the auspices of the President of the United States. If there are repeated failures of these institutions, one should rightly look to the Commander-in-Chief and upper echelons of authority for responsibility.

    Should we use our military to engage in "peacekeeping" across the globe? I don't believe we should unless invited. In Desert Storm, we were invited by Kuwait to defend them and push back against the aggression of the neighboring Iraqis led by Saddam Hussein. We had an interest in protecting not only trade but our allies in the region, so we were not only defending against aggression, but strengthening trade ties. I believe this can be justified.

    The more recent actions to overthrow regimes, however, I believe are not within a defensive role. Our recent actions to depose Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Bashar Assad in Libya, and Mohammed Morsi in Egypt lie outside our role as invited defenders. Further, it is highly questionable that the outcomes further our interests.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 9 months ago
    jbrenner, I appreciate your commentary here.

    Over the past decade I have really been checking my premises. For me, it started with our response to 9/11. The American people were all behind a military response to attack our attackers. I turned on the tv one night to see our first military action...dropping food on Afghanistan. This confused me. Next, we invaded Iraq. Confused again. Look at what our actions have done to the world over the past 14 years. A million dead in Iraq, per some reports. A million.

    Harvesting organs of 2nd trimester babies because you "want to buy a Lamborghini", in my opinion, exceeds what I would consider "rational self interest". Forcing medical treatment on people also is outside the bounds of rational self interest. These are just a couple recent examples.

    Frankly, I think the American people are being duped. The other night when the media exploded over Trump's comments regarding Mexico I blurted out, "If we were really at war with terrorism, we'd control our borders." It, to me, is starting to feel like we're living in a big Truman Show. The general public is so easily distracted over stories like a trophy hunter killing a lion...it doesn't bode well. I've had people that I know to be very intelligent and educated regurgitate obvious falsehoods and it always makes me stop and say, "What's going on here?" Like I said...Truman Show...duped.

    ...Yeah, it's always good to check our premises. Sorry for my early-morning ramblings...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by coaldigger 9 years, 9 months ago
    I think we will always have to check our premises as our experiences change with society. I firmly believe that the only justifiable purpose of government is to protect individual rights. Abortion is problematic to me because the fetus is in the process of becoming an individual and at some point its rights need to be protected as well. I also think that the mother has rights and do not know where to draw the line (rape, incest, deformity?). I do not think abortion is a legitimate birth control method and with every passing day of the pregnancy it troubles me more as an ethical issue. How long does she need to make a decision to revoke the result of a decision she previously made? I heard someone on TV say that it is not considered to be an individual until it leaves the hospital. I think just drawing a line of compromise does damage to the ethical fiber of society and leads to Planned Parenthood making jokes about the value of fetus parts adding up to a Lamborghini. My callous side says that if these people don't want their babies, let them kill them because I don't want them either but I can't rationally justify that position with my belief that government should protect individual rights.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I did not mean that your premises are mixed. I should have put that in quotes - The more basic problem - your "premises" - is that a mixed … - because I was referring the mixed premises of the wider society.

    "And then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto, In God is Our Trust."
    That is one step beyond defending your home from the war's desolation.

    Jackson, too, is a mixed bag. We are supposed to hate central banks but the "pet banks" that Jackson chose were not a consistently moral solution. In fact, they were an example of his political strategy: to the victor go the spoils. That is no way to run a government. A government based on rational principles needs a permanent, independent bureaucracy.

    Jackson defied the Supreme Court. Chief Justice Marshall chose discretion over valor and let the injustice against the Cherokee Nation be carried out. What choice did he have? He could have called on the federal marshals. He could enlarged their force and over-powered the White House guards and arrested Jackson. Where would that have led? Perhaps he should have, but alternate histories are problematic.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • 11
    Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago
    Jim, I think that is one of the keys to an Objectivist life. None of us can be successful in our lives without 'checking those premises' as they arise in our personal, private, and business lives. Even as one studies and lives Objectivism and might think they have it all down pat, if he is honest with himself he will encounter situations that make him look or at least re-look at his premises. New information, new evidence, new questions will always and forever rise. For myself, that's the joy of life. One can never say truthfully that all questions are answered or that all premises are completely understood.

    Life is change.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by conscious1978 9 years, 9 months ago
    Points for honesty and thinking, Jim. Since I joined GG, I've respected that in your comments - whether I agree or disagree with you.

    $
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I had forgotten about Boeing's desire to move to South Carolina. There are so many affronts that have taken place that it is hard to remember them all.
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo