Bethlehem Steel

Posted by Bradleytank 12 years, 4 months ago to Business
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As I drive by my old customer Bethlehem Steel... I question who is left in American manufacturing. The fragmented manufacturing and specialization has created a void. A cloud of regulations and tax law have economically engineered an economic storm equilivant to a nuclear winter.


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  • Posted by RonC 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's a fair dissection. Today the roles are reversed. The gov't version of Robin Hood means the big 0 and his legions will take all and "redistribute" it. I've got a novel idea. Why don't they make the whole country an enterprise zone and redistribute wealth to the most energetic, hardest, and smartest working people? Equal opportunity seems more interesting to me than equal outcomes.
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  • Posted by 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Robin Hood stole from the rich (tax collecting government - Sheriff) not rich citizens. In the serf system there were limited free men that were rich. Americans have romanticized Robin Hood as a class warfare hero, he should be remade as a Super Tax Accountant that battle tax code by day and creates tax free religions by night.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Our guns are ineffective against the militarized police much less the army. I detested the the cowardice of the Boston bombers but I only became afraid when I saw the tanks, and armory that the police had at their disposal. Hundreds of bullets sprayed into the boat to dispense with a wounded, unarmed terrorist was not the end I wanted to see. I know trial are expensive but that is American justice or used to be. Drones flying over borders into countries whose governments are not a threat to kill suspected terrorists along with innocent bystanders is not cool with me either. I would opt for a public trial in absentia, then if anyone was foolish enough to be caught with the person and they shared his sentence, it would be more palatable. This also has the advantage that a single person, in anonymity, could not legally send a drone in my front door because I am outspoken.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Security is boring. If you aren't at risk you are not making any progress. People used to be surprised that I did not gamble but I always said I do, just with things that matter. I gambled to produce value not to squander the medium of that value already produced.
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  • Posted by coaldigger 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is so funny. Your post is right out of a paper I did for an Economic Forecasting class in grad school. I even developed a mathematical model using regression analysis for capital spending based on world wide investment data. My boss got me an interview with Father Hogan at Fordam who was an industry expert of the time and I my report was complete with his quotes. I thought my paper was pretty impressive but my professor was pretty sarcastic and when he had graded my paper and was handing it back he said "So, you are saying we should have bombed our own plants too at the end of WW II?"
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  • Posted by $ blarman 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My father worked pushing coke at the US Steel plant in Orem, Utah while attending college. He could see the beginning of the end, though and got a Masters in Electrical Engineering. Made good money, worked brutal rotating shifts, and was glad to be done.
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  • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I can still picture to coke ovens along rte 51 near Elizabeth, PA, all lined up and nestled into the hillside.
    I agree, molten steel is something to behold. In my PoW post, that is the business I would love to own.
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  • Posted by RonC 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The heyday of the USA was when used our resources and our labor to manufacture products our salesmen could deliver to world. Politically, in the mid 70s we decided to move away from this. Nixon invented the EPA by executive order, OPEC staged the first oil embargo, Rachael Carson's "Silent Spring" from a decade earlier was now taught in school as environmental gospel, and the book "Future Shock" told all of us readers that the industrial economy must naturally give way to the service economy. Well, let me lay out a few facts of life our Nation and it's politicos have overlooked.

    1. Wealth is created by 5 simple long term items or situations. Land, improvements to land, resources, value added through manufacture, and intellectual property. That's not me, it's from Funk and Wagnel's. Checking the above paragraph you will see that for many years we, as a Nation, utilized both resources and value added through manufacturing to create immense wealth. The moment our gov't decided to encourage the service economy and export labor (chiefly through tax policy) we became a debtor nation. This is because we now, and for years, consume more than we produce. At the same time this shift leaves behind roughly 1/3 of our population. 40 years ago these people. for the most part, had jobs that paid them very well for the skill sets they had. They paid taxes, paid union dues in some cases, bought homes, went to Kroger every week, had a family, and prospered. Now about 1/3 of the US population does not participate in the labor force. They are dependents of the state in one way or another. This adds to the debtor nation status. We not only consume more than we produce, we borrow money to pay for the things those unable to find work need. "We are our brother's keeper." It's the right thing to do, or maybe "it's fair!"

    2. Wealth has a lasting value, or intrinsic value. Look carefully at the service industries. Does a stock broker or banker add value to what he produces or do they simply rearrange the papers? Each of us use some sort of tax service every year. Last year my tax return was 95 pages long. While I deeply appreciate the knowledge my tax professional has, what is the intrinsic value of those 95 pages on April 16th? How much is a haircut worth in 4 weeks? While it is convenient to have a valet park my car, I'm not sure he makes the trip downtown worth more.

    My point is to have a thriving economy takes more than the service industries. Someone actually has to get their hands dirty creating wealth. I imagine it takes government for infrastructure, manufacturing, and services to create a 3 legged stool for the economy to sit on. Take away, or damage any leg and it makes thing pretty uncomfortable.

    3. Jobs trickle down, but wealth percolates up. It's true, the rich get richer, but consider this. The higher laborers climb the economic ladder the more wealthy they become. With persistence they reach a point where their assets earn enough they shall never have to labor again, which is another characteristic of wealth. Being rich is a 6 figure executive job with perks. It's great. But when two companies merge and only need one management team, that is a very shallow job pool to navigate. On the other hand, being wealthy means it's OK to take the month off because the cash flow just keeps coming. It's not related to effort, it's wealth.

    Somehow in the telling and reliving of the "Robin Hood" tale America has lost it's way. I find it interesting that Robin Hood is so closely spelled to Robbin' Hood, which is a street thug. I guess the original Robin Hood was a Sherwood Forest thug! The problem with the story is the rich guy will simply avoid Sherwood Forest, rather than be robbed by the mouches (Hoods). They may get travelers cheques from the Templars or Dominicis or they may go by another route. In modern America we have international corporations leaving profits offshore rather than be scalped by our Presidential Barber. I've noticed that everyone gets a haircut except the ones that need to be cut back!

    Finally, nobody I know wants dirty water or smokey air. But just as the county building inspector tells a builder what is needed for a given structure, it seems to me that the EPA could say if you're going to build a refinery...do it this way. The same for factory, pipeline, or any other needed addition. What we have today is a stone wall that values minnows more than the San Joaquin Valley farmers and turtles more than oil pipelines. In that regard, we deserve the economy we have allowed to be hijacked. Since this is the AS forum I would add this. Many of us have created our own gulch and refuse to do one thing more until the government ceases to punish thoughtful accomplishment and reward careless neglect. In my case, I don't have to be another Donald Trump, I just have to have enough assets to support my lifestyle, lay my taxes off on one or two of the tenants, and enjoy the fine car they provide for me. Why should I do one thing more for them to take away?

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  • Posted by $ Susanne 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Add to that the beauty of giving our people not just meaningful and well paying jobs, but in so doing bringing us from a nation of consumers to a nation of producers... It would be, well, a second Industrial Revolution, once again placing us far ahead of the foreign so-called competition. Thank you for being a part of the revolution.
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  • Posted by TexanSolar 12 years, 4 months ago
    I once worked US Steel at a Steel Mill in Bay town, Texas. This steel mill in now owned by a company from India.
    While I worked there, a large suspension bridge was built over the Houston Ship Channel about 4 miles away from the bridge. The large amount of steel required for this bridge could have very easily provided by US Steel or Bethlehem Steel. But, for some reason the steel was shipped from South Africa.
    Why could this steel not have been provided from an American Company? Taxes, regulations, free trade? Whatever reason it is unacceptable.
    Our government should promote our manufacturing, not work to destroy it.
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  • Posted by Danno 12 years, 4 months ago
    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_M....

    "The stock market crash of 1929 finished off what years of wanton spending had started. He spent his last years in a small apartment. He could no longer afford the taxes on "Riverside" and it was seized by creditors. He had offered to sell the mansion at a huge loss but there were no takers. At his death ten years later, Schwab's holdings in Bethlehem Steel were virtually worthless, and he was over US$300,000 in debt. Had he lived a few more years, he would have seen his fortunes restored when Bethlehem Steel was flooded with orders for war material."

    I am thinking about the Military-Industrial Complex. Need profits...
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  • Posted by coaldigger 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My father worked for "The Corporation" and it was easy to see that management became willing to take the path of east resistance and cave into the demands of unions that had the politicians on their side for the benefit of their votes and donations. Just like the moochers in AS, they knew it was not right but thought it would last as long as they lived. This is further proof that without a philosophy based on rationality, we are doomed.

    The greatest sight I have ever observed is the pouring of molten metal. Tapping a blast furnace, pouring steel into a torpedo car or pouring a ladle into a tundish with all the splashes and sparks is an unbelievable experience. Of course, I also get off pushing coke (no, cot that kind) out of a Koppers-Becker chemical recovery oven, but that's just me!
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 12 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "The ever present government over regulation and crippling taxes, coupled with outrageous union demands obliterated manufacturing here in the states." As an old U. S. Steel guy, I would ask you to include a hidebound and arrogant management with the rest of the culprits.
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  • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 12 years, 4 months ago
    It looks like a wasteland, where the manufacturing plants and mills have closed. Being from PGH, it was not good to see. Unfortunately, the unions pushed the mills beyond the point of no return. The ever present government over regulation and crippling taxes, coupled with outrageous union demands obliterated manufacturing here in the states. It's not going to get better until people wake up and boot this liberal regime that is entrenched!
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