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  • Posted by 13 years, 1 month ago
    Thanks for everyones responses.

    It appears that intelligence between the two men is not the main difference. But rather formulating the idea of the strike and taking the first action - and leading by example.

    Does anyone else have any other thoughts on the differences
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I couldn't find 'The Husband I Bought?' on Amazon. It sounds intriguing. Any ideas where to find it? Google search turned up weird and creepy results.
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  • Posted by khalling 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    awesome. -you're in there now, so you'll see her earliest sketches on We the Living.
    Everyone has their own choices. I say The Fountainhead. I usually introduce people to AR with Fountainhead, but due to the movies, I have changed that strategy. They are all wonderful. yep, badass...with fireworks
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    John Galt was the first to be confronted with pure evil, yes, but he also KNEW what he had and how much he (and the world) had to lose by letting the looters get to his motor. He had the most to lose first and rather than give in he had a brilliant idea and left. And then found other worthy potential shruggers and recruited them too. I also wanted Galt to laugh like Francisco and for that reason I always found Francisco more appealing. (oops...Sorry, you didn't ask who we found more appealing. lol)
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  • Posted by $ EitherOr 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for the recommendation-- just finished reading The Husband. Interesting early version of Francisco's realization that Dagny loves Galt, and that to keep pursuing Dagny after that would make all 3 of them unhappy. I was *somewhat* joking with that comment on selfishness - more thinking of Francisco setting high standards for himself, and his speech to Rearden on how someone trying to have "unselfish" sex would be ridiculous.
    I just discovered AS last year; it was the first work of Rand's I read. Is We the Living a good second choice? I was considering The Fountainhead or Anthem.
    I'm sure Francisco has found someone, and they probably throw the most badass parties in the valley. Featuring fireworks shows by Ragnar. :)
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  • Posted by khalling 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    and he lives with the uncertainty of her choice. kinda equivalent, in my view.
    "that he wanted the best and Dagny was the best woman out there. purely selfish, but that's how love should be, right? :)"
    have you watched "We the Living?" Also read the short story "The Husband I Bought?"
    You have to earn someone's love. Francisco understands that Galt earned Dagny's love. I have no doubt that Francisco has an amazing partner. Perhaps he hasn't found the love of his life yet-there is some lucky exceptional person out there who will be very happy when they meet. I bet it will not be by chance :)
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  • Posted by $ EitherOr 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Good point. Yeah Francisco was immature in leaving Dagny hanging while he was in college, but ultimately he loved her. He wanted to make her sra. d'anconia, but maybe this was just him knowing that he wanted the best and Dagny was the best woman out there. purely selfish, but that's how love should be, right? :) His deception is required for the strike, and Dagny is a casualty of that deception because of their relationship.
    By "close to Dagny" do you mean Galt working for TT? once she lands in the valley I got the impression there was no consideration of love- Dagny knows she wants Galt but must work to deserve him.
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  • Posted by khalling 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    First, the role of leader is acknowledged by others due to achievement and risk. Galt took the initial risks and continued to make great decisions. Honor and reason demand those of like mind on the plan accede to his leadership.
    Regardless of matched wits and intelligence, Galt was the first to take the important steps. Therefore leadership was Galt's and Galt's alone to give up.
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  • Posted by khalling 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    through Francisco's relationship with Dagny, is what I should have said. When Francisco goes off to college, begins friendships with Ragnar and John, he goes long periods without connecting with Dagny. He doesn't share that these men have an influence on his life. At some point, he tells her that the world is wrong, but does not explain. He goes two years without speaking to her at all. This leaves her confused and angry. He even admits his behavior was hurtful. None of this has to do with the deception he plans. He doesn't tell her he loves her until 10 years after that. C'mon. This is someone who is in love with the idea of being in love. He has not taken care of an important relationship. I would say Francisco displays an immaturity there.
    Galt is the one who chooses to be close to Dagny without compromising his resolve and plan. and waits for her to come to the same realization about the world, and then consider love.
    To your last question: I think Galt is the first one to decide to remain true to himself, no matter the risk. even though some may say what was there to lose? Heroes always choose to be leaders, it's just a matter of when, in my opinion.
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  • Posted by 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Im not writing a paper. I'd like to clarify this question for my own selfish, self-centered reason.

    Both individuals filled two different roles, howecer, it seems that Francisco was so skilled and intelligent, that I wonder whether he couldn't have led the strike equally as well as Galt did...

    Lastly, his achievements and innovations in the copper business appear close to matching if not equal to those of Galt in physics.

    Lets take both points separately.
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  • Posted by $ EitherOr 13 years, 1 month ago
    -"You get a stronger sense of who Francisco is through Dagney"-
    I disagree, khalling. Galt represents all of Dagny's highest values, so we know quite a bit about him through her. She respects mind, ability, and independence, and a conviction in one's self.
    Francisco has the same qualities, but the key difference between him and Galt is that Galt discovered the solution to their problem (countering the moochers, i.e. stopping the world) when no one else did. That's why everyone hero worships Galt (even Hugh Akston, through favoritism).
    I would like to see Galt lighten up a bit, and laugh like Francisco, but I guess that could happen later, after the book ends.
    I'm curious now: Anyone have thoughts on WHY Galt was the one to start the strike? I guess this would reveal the key difference between him and Francisco. Was it just because he was presented with pure evil (Starnes heirs) before Francisco or Ragnar? or because he "comes from nothing" as khalling said and that makes him value production more?
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  • Posted by Lucky 13 years, 1 month ago
    F.d'A has a hard job as he has to act as dissolute to cover up what he is really doing.
    In the book, when offered the job of economic supremo, JG declines. He does not want to save the government nor does he seek power for himself.
    F however helps to save the sabotaged Reardon Metal plant even when we all know it will go sooner or later.
    JG is too driven, too honest maybe, even to act as anything he is not.
    F is immensely capable, can do anything. JG is a genius in more than one area.
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  • Posted by khalling 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    are you writing a paper? I'll produce a little for you since you have become a producer yourself for our site.
    Notice how few details you are given regarding Galt. You get a stronger sense of who Francisco is through Dagney. Ultimately, galt is the philosophical originator and the inventor of not only the motor but of the plan to save the world by letting it destroy itself. Francisco is self aware through acknowledging Galt's superiority. He's also got a little hero worship thing going on, which I think he needs to work on. :)
    "(Francisco) was looking at Rearden, but it was not Rearden he was seeing. He looked as if he were facing another presence in the room and as if his glance were saying: If this is what you demand of me, then even this is yours, yours to accept and mine to endure, there is no more than this in me to offer you, but let me be proud to know that I can offer so much."
    We're not given much, but Galt is self-contained, driven, uncompromising.
    Francisco is also driven and uncompromising. But Rand depicts him as passionate and flamboyant. He increases the latter as part of his deception. They came from different circumstances. Francisco was raised privileged. Galt came from nothing to invent disruptive technology and to orchestrate the ultimate saving of the world.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I was being goofy and saying the obvious things they are known for. Your post was not definitive and you gave no example of what you were looking for.
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  • Posted by 13 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for the reply. But I'm looking for the difference in their character and to a lesser degree, the difference in their personality.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 13 years, 1 month ago
    One invented the motor of the world....and took it with him when he left. The other one gave a lengthy "root of money" speech at a looter's wedding.
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