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  • Posted by $ Temlakos 5 years, 7 months ago
    Same mistake Pope Paul VI made. Populorum Progressio, all over again. Rand would say the same thing about Pope Francis' latest screeds as she did about that encyclical.

    Just so you all know: Francis does not get that out of the Bible. He cannot conceive of anyone other than maybe a solo farmer, artist, artisan, or craftsman making an honest living. And he conflates private enterprise with the ancient Roman practice of hiring private agents--the publicani--to collect Rome's taxes for them. Those agents routinely collected tax where tax was not due, even by trumping up evidence. One such publican, Zacchaeus of Jericho, admitted as much and pledged to make four-fold restitution in every such case.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 7 months ago
    I love this use of language. "Unfettered." When have we heard of unfettered socialism? Unfettered communism? Unfettered fascism? For that matter, when in the entire history of mankind has there ever been unfettered capitalism? Never. If it had happened, anyone to make such a statement as the Pope's would have been laughed at or recommend a visit to a shrink.
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  • Posted by mcsandberg 5 years, 7 months ago
    I think Ayn Rand is correct and the pope is incredibly wrong

    "So you think that money is the root of all evil? . . . Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can’t exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

    When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor—your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil? ( http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/mon... ) "

    The pope really has no excuse for his ignorance.

    Atlas Shrugged was supposed to be a warning, Not A Newspaper!
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 7 months ago
      Knowlingly or not you made a common urban myth misquote. The entire phrase is "It is the love of money that is the root of evil. For a Pope he should have learned his Bible a bit better. For the moment I'll just consider the a source and put him in the same category as Soros.By the way is Soros RC or what?
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      • Posted by mcsandberg 5 years, 7 months ago
        I always wondered why Ayn Rand made that mistake.

        What is RC?
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        • Posted by plusaf 5 years, 7 months ago
          I'm not convinced Rand made a mistake there...
          'love of money' is probably the original text and meaning, but over the years, decades or centuries, it seems that the "quote" has morphed into the common quote of "money is the root..."

          You hear that nearly all the time, not "the love of..."

          I'd suggest that Rand was talking to the multitudes who use the misquote as a justification to attack capitalism and free markets.

          And I think the pope is a moron for suggesting that there's any "unfettered capitalism" anywhere on earth today and maybe even in the past. Capitalism has ALWAYS been 'fettered' by people who like power and control over others.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 7 months ago
          Roman Catholic. They too had their schisms like Sunni and Shiite. The other branch is Eastern Orthodox. Sometimes two names mean the same thing - Church of England and Episcopalian.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 7 months ago
          Roman Catholic. They too had their schisms like Sunni and Shiite. The other branch is Eastern Orthodox. Sometimes two names mean the same thing - Church of England and Episcopalian.
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  • Posted by SaltyDog 5 years, 7 months ago
    This from a man living like a prince in what is arguably the most fabulous palace in the world, housing countless priceless works of art, while he proclaims that anyone who earns 100 bucks should divest him/herself of most of to give to the poor. I don't think that's what Christ had in mind...
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    • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 7 months ago
      Yes, but he's humble. That counts for something? And, no ladies! I guess his sacrifice makes him able to criticize others. Or does it? I bet it would be interesting to hear what he says about things on a secular level, without using God as his backup.
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      • Posted by SaltyDog 5 years, 7 months ago
        You know Herb, I want to think the best of the man. I honestly do. But when you read about the priests abusing the kids, and now there's a former archbishop, who was an ambassador to the Dominican Republic I believe, is on trial charged with paying young boys for sex, ya gotta wonder...
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        • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 7 months ago
          Priests, bishops, Popes, are merely men. No better or worse than other men. Without the authority of a heavenly ghost they have no qualification to counsel others. When you have thousands of womenless men, some small percentage of them are bound to prefer boys, others unable to resist young women are less heard from, but the point is -- they are merely men. Without the heavenly ghost to back them up, they'd be treated like any other man.
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          • Posted by strugatsky 5 years, 7 months ago
            And what makes you think that it is a small percentage? Based on the history of the past centuries and the world-wide effort to pretent that they see no evil and hear no evil while raping children in epidemic numbers, it is only reasonable to give very high marks to the Catholic Whorehouse.
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            • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 7 months ago
              Whoa!
              Strong words. First of all, whores don't practice rape. That makes them more honorable than the priests who do. As to numbers, I have no idea. Have the recent reforms done any good or have they merely forced the bad priests further underground? Don't get me wrong, I would never defend the Catholic religion for anything on any subject. Their history is filled with intrigue and horror and the current operation of the Vatican is just as dishonest as most states.
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              • Posted by strugatsky 5 years, 7 months ago
                Barbara Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror" is an excellent expose of the Catholic Church. Their public relations methods have changed, but not their nature. If any other institution (except, perhaps, for the federal government) were to systematically protect and hide away child rapists, that institution would have been dismantled to its foundation. But the Church thrives, collects and professes to teach us how to live!
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                • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 7 months ago
                  I doubt if I could survive as a devout Catholic. However, when I was younger, I would have been an excellent genuflector. Come to think of it, I doubt if I could survive as a devout anything.
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          • Posted by SaltyDog 5 years, 7 months ago
            I'm not disputing that at all. What I'm saying is that as priests, monsginors, bishops, archbishops, cardinals and popes they enjoy an office of greater trust and the corresponding responsibility that goes along with it. As a result they should, nay, must be held to a much higher standard particularly with respect to children and they should know and accept that. To take that a step further, again with respect to children, 99% compliance is a failure...it must of necessity be 100%. When an errant cleric is caught, he must be dealt with immediately and severely and not just sent off to another parish. When one fails, they all fail.
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            • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 7 months ago
              Absolutely agree. I suspect, however, that in many cases they are not held to that standard. Like many understaffed concerns, they are often happy just to get a warm body.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 7 months ago
          It could mean the Protestants haven't been caught yet.
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          • Posted by strugatsky 5 years, 7 months ago
            Haven't dealt that close with the Protestants, but I can definitively state that in the Eastern (Greek) Orthodox Church the priests all but run whorehouses. Affliction for boys is not common, though - they prefer girls.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 7 months ago
              My Greek language instructor in the Army was a Greek Orthodox Priest. He said the same thing back in the 70's. Unlike the perverted other church though they are allowed marriage. But it may have to be married before priesthood.

              Kudos where due though that church and the Mormons were the only one's that ran underground church's and missions in the Soviet Empire. A lot more showed up AFTER the heavy lifting was over they don't seem to get much recognition but more of a Where were you when?? Show me your well worn samzidat bible?
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              • Posted by strugatsky 5 years, 7 months ago
                The Orthodox Church has two branches: one, where a prospective priest marries before being ordained and, the second is the monastical branch. That's where the perversion is truly blossoming.
                As to the Soviet era activity, there was some, but very limited. They were truly dedicated and courageous. After the fall of the Empire, there was a flood of "do-gooders" who were trying to snatch souls (and eventual 10%) on the cheap. Most of them have now been kicked out.
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    • Posted by Ranter 5 years, 7 months ago
      He doesn't actually live in the Papal Palace. He chose to live in the Vatican Hotel -- outfitted like a Best Western but with a chapel. Previous Popes lived in the palace, in a small apartment on the top floor. The rest of the palace is administrative offices for the Pope's staff. The priceless works of art are in the Vatican Museum, which is open for tours. No Pope ever said "anyone who earns 100 bucks should divest him/herself of most of to give to the poor."
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      • Posted by jdg 5 years, 7 months ago
        There's a lot more art in a basement that the public never sees. The Church spent most of the last 2,000 years looting every pagan temple in Europe, as well as bleeding the peasants dry.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 7 months ago
    The poor pope’s only frame of reference is what most call crony-capitalism and what is best named by Stossel as crapitalsim. From that perspective, unfettered pursuit of money is the dung of the aristocracy of pull.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 5 years, 7 months ago
      One would expect a "learned father" to be more learned...
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      • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 7 months ago
        One would think the "learned father" would be more learned---but then if "learned" enough, he probably would be an atheist. And, after all, he was born and raised in Argentina. That country loves big government and hates freedom to do businss. Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 5 years, 7 months ago
    Later in the article, it said this: "Quoting a fourth century bishop, he called the unfettered pursuit of money “the dung of the devil”,..."

    I absolutely do not agree that capitalism is dung of the devil, but I would agree that pursuit of money that_you_have_not_earned would qualify as that sort of excrement. Unfortunately, from other remarks that Frank has made he does seem to think that Capitalism = dung. (There are some statements where he has said that he is not opposed to Capitalism but only to greed...but I am not sure I buy this.)

    The pope has made a personal choice to live in a communal, socialist Jesuit organization. This cannot help but influence how he thinks a 'good' economic system is constructed. He should be able to do better than that!

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 7 months ago
    Some of you RC's who had unflattering comments about the Pope were completely correct. I double dog dare the Pope to point at one example of unfettered capitalism and guarantee other than a yard sale he'll duck the issue. Quack Quack Quack?
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  • Posted by nln1219 5 years, 7 months ago
    What's sad is that he and many people just don't get it. This Pope is nice man but that's it...he is a man. Not infallible. He also heads a religion that has groomed its robotic followers that faith equals blindly supporting the Roman church, it's oft perverted teaching and that all other churches of the Christian faith will burn in hell, not to mention other religions. They have been told that the books of Ms. Rand and the like are evil because there is no altruism. No, the problem is not capitalism. And the problem is not faith. It is humans perverting religion, and everything else like they are at Old Country Buffet to suit themselves. Humans are going to be their own undoing. Altruism in and of itself is not even a problem, if done as the Bible teaches. In secret, in private...do not let the right hand know what the left is doing. That is giving at it's finest, because the gift is freely and not FALSELY given like Governments and Religions would guilt you into doing for the "public good". This is obviously also a Pope that did not suffer much during WWII, other wise he would realize that under "Unfettered communism, socialism and fascism" his precious Roman Catholicism is not even allowed to exist without certain quid pro quo to that government.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 5 years, 7 months ago
    It looks like the Pope is the reincarnation of King Canute and his command to halt the tides. Capitalism is the result of natural forces and is not an invention that can be turned on or off by edict. Societies that embrace capitalism are simply using this force, they did not invent it.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years, 7 months ago
    Interesting, but both Ayn and Karl (and many others) correctly identified and enumerated that religion is an evil manipulator long ago, and overwhelming evidence supports it.

    Please do pit ctholicism against capitalism. I love this. He will drive from rich countries catholicism to the ignorant masses in South America et al. where it will become just like islam (like it used to be), and later irrelevant.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 5 years, 7 months ago
    Let's face it: The Pope is a socialist who believes capitalism is immoral. Morales just gave him a crucifix with a hammer and sickle on it. He accepted the gift and said not a word about it. Why won't the mainstream media call him out on this? Because most of them agree with the Pope, that's why! Or they agree with him on the moral issue but disagree on the economic issue and are afraid to address the fact that the Pope is consistent and they are not.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 7 months ago
    That Marxist pope is full of his own poop.
    In the next world he and the devil can get into a chimpanzee feces flinger fight.
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    • Posted by broskjold22 5 years, 7 months ago
      The fact is, the pope in this statement renders himself worse than Marxist. Essential to his grab bag of populist remarks is that he is sticking to his altruist guns. Practiced and implemented, this means attacking and chastising any and all ideals or people who oppose altruism. In fact, that's about all there is left for him to do, and he knows it more than even we would! We should actually be thankful to the pope because, in this way, he makes a spectacle of the entire altruist code of ethics. So cheers to you oh dear liberal pope, for redressing grievances and making the voice of the people known! Just like the voice the Catholic Church had when it helped to banish Jews from Spain in 1492. You want fettered capitalism? You want socialism? You want to make economic decisions from your ivory tower in the Vatican and be the man who decides who gets what and when? You want to be the benefactor of goods you have seized from people you claim to represent? More power to you. Because pope, God is watching, and so is Danneskjold repossessions.
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