Ayn Rand, Abortion, and Planned Parenthood.

Posted by Eudaimonia 9 years, 9 months ago to Politics
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Kevin Williamson of National Review did a follow-up to his piece which I posted here yesterday.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/...

In this current piece, again on the Planned Parenthood atrocity (my word), he takes a shot at Planned Parenthhood apologists by referencing Rand
"Why not have a Fast Freddy’s Fetal Livers Emporium and Bait Shop in every town large enough to merit a Dairy Queen? If you are having some difficulty answering that question, perhaps you should, as some famous abortion-rights advocate once put it, check your premises."

Some people have taken this line to also be an implication of Rand.
Me, I'm not sure, there's a few things I disagree with Rand on, abortion being one of them.

But, what is Rand's view on abortion?
Here is a link the entry in the Ayn Rand Lexicon.
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/abo...

I think the most relevant portion is this.
"A piece of protoplasm has no rights—and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months."

In Rand's day, that's what abortion was.

Now, I'm no doctor, but I doubt very much that organ tissue can be harvested from a first trimester embryo.
I speculate that Planned Parenthood was harvesting exclusively from late term and even partial-birth abortions.

What Rand would say about this is also speculative, although we can infer from her words "One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy..."

So, Objectivists, what say you?

Disclosure, my personal opinions on abortion - the human animal is a biological machine, as such it has core programming (instinctual drives). Maternal instincts are some of the most powerful any animal possesses, even stronger than Self-preservation or Species-reproduction. As such, I believe that when a woman has an abortion, regardless of the trimester, her maternal instinct kicks in at some level - automatic, unstoppable, irrevocable, unaffected by popular opinion of what abortion is supposed to be. As such, I believe that when a woman gets an abortion, she is doing deep and permanent psychological damage to herself. The existence of groups such as Silent No More lead me to suspect that my opinion is correct. What is the percentage of women who are psychologically damaged by an abortion? Who knows, and with today's Lysenko "scientists" I doubt there will be any unbiased research done. Regardless, until women who are considering an abortion first get counselling on the (what I believe) strong probability of psychological damage from the procedure, I can not be anything but against it.

This disclosure is also open for debate on this thread.


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  • Posted by AmericanGreatness 9 years, 9 months ago
    I would hope that her opinion would change with technology. We now know brain activity begins as early as six weeks and premature birth that would once has resulted in death are now common.

    The seminal question is, when does life begin? If not at conception, when?
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  • Posted by jtrikakis 9 years, 9 months ago
    Life simply cannot begin at or anywhere near conception; that creates an untenable contradiction of rights." How so? If a mustard seed is planted then it has to grow (assuming it has proper water, soil, and light) into a mustard tree. The whole process of conception is to develop a human.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree at least partially. The government should play no role in the abortion debate but that is not the case. Liberals love to cite "defacto" activity such as "defacto racism". The statistics clearly reveal that "minority" races dominate abortion rates. This is consistent with those supporting eugenics and racial cleansing. It is immaterial that the liberals would deny it.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, I would advise against buying violent computer games. Particularly those games, like the Grand Theft Auto franchise, that actually place a premium on demonstrably criminal behavior.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How do you define "life?" From simple biological measures, the zygote has life at conception. Organs and heartbeat develop during the first trimester, and the fetus has already taken on a distinct human form by the end of that period. Reactions that indicate a response to pain stimuli are present before 20 weeks. Determining sentience is trickier, so we have to rely on viability outside the womb. That is getting to be really uncertain as technology that supports "preemies" is making it possible for ever-younger babies to survive early birth.

    Just curious as to the logic behind your statement.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    She was comfortable with first trimester abortions.

    Many people, including the Supreme Court in Roe v Wade are guided by the viability argument -- that once the fetus could live outside the mother (note even a baby can't live independently of human effort) it becomes protected.

    It was known at the time of the decision and continues to be true that its a moving target. Eventually at any point after fertilization technology will be able to bring it to term so we will have some interesting debates.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course it has to do with at what point a fetus becomes a child which society should protect.

    It's hard to make that case unless at least fertilization occurs.

    Or are you just trying to equate abortion with birth control to minimize the moral aspect?
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Her theory of rights necessarily makes abortion moral. Late stage abortions represents a special case. Like all pro-lifers, you start with the wrong assumption - that a fetus is a human being.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's nonsense. But I will say that govt. has no business being involved in what should be an individual decision.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's interesting that so many can fight abortion, but few care about the use of the pill. Both prevent a fetus from being born.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Rand's views stem logically from Metaphysics; you need to read her more closely.
    Life simply cannot begin at or anywhere near conception; that creates an untenable contradiction of rights.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 9 months ago
    First, it is absurd to claim that a woman who aborts is doing "deep and permanent psy. damage." You even contradict yourself by saying you don't know how many might be so damaged.

    2. An Obj.ist has to accept the morality of abortion - an issue of rights.

    3. For those late-term abortion cases (which are fairly small in number): if the fetus would be breathing/alive upon removal, then one could claim it to be "human." But like Rand said, that is not where morality lies (on the extremes).

    4. I don't have a problem with the use of fetus parts in research. But the mother of the fetus should have a say in that use and be compensated in some way (e.g. for hospital bills).
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  • Posted by walkabout 9 years, 9 months ago
    Why, since "the pill" has been available universally for more than 50 years (as well as other effective means of conception prevention) is abortion even a viable business. Yes, as the pro-abortionist say, "it is a choice;" a choice to engage in intercourse (w/ or w/o adequate protection). Once, it is conceived, it is a consequence; it is clear you have already made a choice. To the pilots among us, I reminded everyone that every takeoff is optional; every landing is mandatory.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 9 years, 9 months ago
    Statistics reveal that government sanctioned abortion is, defacto, part of an agenda of eugenics and racial cleansing. The original goal of Margaret Sanger when she founded Planned Parenthood was the reduction of the population of undesirables and the racially inferior by means of reducing their birth rate. Today's liberal progressives will never admit to this but the numbers cannot be denied.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My ex regrets the abortion of her first child (before I met her).
    I've seen women on TV say they now regret an abortion. I know a woman who still mourns a miscarried child lost two decades ago.
    I'm sure there are plenty of skanks who will say "Oops!" at a missed period and beeline to PP on our dollar like it's all about nothing.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 9 months ago
    I conclude: allowing abortion does not follow necessarily from Objectivist precept. Else, how "might one argue about later stages of pregnancy"? You either allow it or you don't.

    The moral standard for Objectivist ethics is supposed to be "man's life." Hence one does not allow murder. But: that also means one should not allow any practice that desensitizes a person and makes him more likely to commit murder. And that is what abortion allows--and the later in the term, the stronger the effect.

    If we do not allow harvesting an adult or a born child for parts, how can we allow that from an unborn child? The second practice, if society allows it, desensitizes the public so they might allow, even demand, the first. How long, then, before "You ought to be broken up for your organs, and maybe then you would be useful to the world" becomes a common insult? And how long after that before that becomes an allowable sentence of a court?

    A few things to think about, in light of the Planned Parenthood revelations.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 9 months ago
    Abortion in the 3rd trimester is murder. I came to this conclusion because I have two beautiful cousins, twins, who were born at 6 months. The girl has grown into a gorgeous mother of two and the boy is about to get married and start a family. Good enough for me to decide. I can only guess that Ayn Rand would agree with me.

    What this "doctor" from PP is doing is Nazi (if that can used as an adjective).

    Has anybody here gotten through that video? I couldn't do it. I got about half way through it and had to shut it down. Try it. See what you think.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    completely agree. but I still stand by opinion that a difficult moral decision is left to the decision maker. I got that from Oliver North. First person to say that in my reading
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