Germany has (well is in process) of raising the retirement age to 80. While this would also "save" the system I prefer to scrap it all together and the taxes that go with it. (last part very important.

6% interest, unless I screwed up on math so let me run through it.

1,000,000 at 6% = 60,000 per year.
2080 work hours in a year at 40 hours per week.
60k/2080 = 28.84 per hour.

How many of you that are not yet retired have saved enough on your own that you really won't need your SocSec? And how many of those plan on abiding by the law by signing up for it and then figuring out some way not to take the money?

I planned well, actually much better than I had expected and really don't need my SocSec. But, there is no way I'm going to work hard (or at all) to try to give it up, I'm just too selfish, and you can use all those other nasty words the left calls me. I don't argue that, that's just me. I'm entitled, SocSec is the law, and I'm going to abide by the law. Besides it does allow us to go out much more often, three or four time a week, and not having to worry about the menu prices. What I do have to worry about is the price of calories, I'm down 25 pounds as of this morning in the last 60 days. You should see me naked in front of the mirror, I look great (that was a true joke). Another five and I'm getting a huge Porterhouse with Baked Potato with all the fixings, of course using my SocSec money. I'd probably be driving my Corvette anyway, but I like to tell people I used my SocSec money to buy it.

Two things I tell all young people, "Don't Smoke", and "Save Your Money".

If I could keep the money I am putting into it now that would really boost my family.

Social security is just a fancy name for yet another tax...

SS might have been a good program, albeit a forced one if the funds taken in were actually used as loans to business or invested wisely.
But instead President Johnson and the Congress gave away the money to welfare and the "Great Society". SS is now an accounting fiction. It is a tax and not, since the 1960’s, a contribution to a “trust”. No one is paying IN to anything, they are only paying OUT. SS can be eliminated for those not already collecting benefits by refunding all past “contributions” with interest and putting that in a real retirement fund. Current recipients would continue being paid from taxes, or choose to opt out by receiving their past “contributions” plus interest.

For more see the article "Uncle Sam Madoff with your money" http://02f8c87.netsolhost.com/WordPre...

When I learned that the people on Social Security
were being paid by the younger people working,(be-
cause their own money was now gone) it seemed to
me that it was unjust any way I figured it. Now I
am unemployed and have been since October (except for a few days shovelling snow this
past winter). My younger brother wants me to
go on it, but I don't want to. I have tried and tried to get a job. Then I thought, that if my
brother did not mind this money being taken from him, it might be all right to go on it for a
few months, till I got a job. So I asked him about
that and he said no, he didn't mind. My sister
(also younger) said the same thing. So I went
to the Social Security office, and asked,if I went
on retirement could I get off of it when I got a
job?--No, I was told.And other things about hav-
ing to pay stuff back later. I got very upset and
left without filing. But I went back the next day
and was told that if I got disability I could get
off it when I got a job. (I'm 63). So I have an
appointment, but I am living on borrowed money
till then. I am ashamed to call myself disabled;
I have epilepsy; but there are plenty of jobs I
can do, although it does interfere with getting
some jobs. But my unemployment (I filed for
it, at my former employer's insistence) has been
cut off. I just hope I can get a job soon. I hate
this welfare state, and I believe that it has had
a share in my being unemployed now.--But I
have been trying and trying to get a job.

This program needs to be killed, gradually phased out so 70 year old people are not out in the street, but if you are 50, you are out.
Replace it with a purely self-funded set of private plans, that are required like ObamaCare.

The SS program as administered by our government is a ponzi scheme. They billed it as a trust fund containing the accumulated savings of the workers that they could tap when retirement came. But the government spent the money- all of it. Now, all that is paying retirees is the tax on payroll of the NON-retired workers. Our politicians should be rounded up and shot for this. It was theft. But, what can we expect from government when it tries to run this kind of program. They are all thieves.

Well. It's a pretty quiet duck then. Considering we lost more people as a percent of the population in an average month in WW2 than we have lost in these wars of the last 14 years.

What kind of interest are you getting that will provide $28 an hour equivalent on a million dollars?

None of it is your money. Once they took the tax it stopped being yours. What you receive now is from the taxes taken from others.

I've always had a thought that I thought was interesting. Nobody who chose not to have children should be allowed to collect social security. I love all of these DINK couples that run around on cruises all over the world. Why should my children have to pay for them to get social security later.

The easiest way to tell if what the government is doing is Legal Plunder is simple.

If you attempt to do EXACTLY what the government does, and are sent to jail for committing a crime, then it's legal plunder.

Is Social Security Legal Plunder? Go ask Bernie Madoff.

Actually, SSI is different from Social Security.. SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is for people that can't work... Severe disabilities drug additions and other issues can be a reason you can be in your 20's and draw SSI... SS was never designed to run both regular payouts and SSI payments..

I have never heard of that term before, however in principal my wife and I follow a few very simple rules.

1) ALWAYS and without exception, spend less than 75% of what you take home, we usually spend about 30 - 35% of my take home.
2) ALWAYS put aside at least 20% of funds you do not spend into some form of savings.
3) ALWAYS keep at least 6 months of your take home in liquid assets, i.e. cash in a safe.
4) If you cannot afford to pay cash for it, you cannot afford it.

5) be prepared for emergencies, i.e. Tornado's, Hurricanes, Economic collapse, and Obama's being elected.

Hi Woodlema,
Your comments regarding "a frugal nature" caught my attention. Several years ago, I did some investigation into the Voluntary Simplicity movement. It wasn't exactly life changing, as we had always lived within our means. A lot of it seems to mesh with Objectivism, as it is very logical - don't spend more than you make. Also, using cash is considered a virtue.

I don't think I've seen anyone mention VS here in the Gulch, just wondered if you were familiar with the concept.

A few numbers .....
US unfunded liabilities: $211 Trillion
(and INRCREASING at $4Trillion/year)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff...

US population (2014): 319 Million

Unfunded Liability per PERSON in US: $660,000

It would take about a $50,000 payment (in addition to all current taxes) per person per year to ever start paying this off.

Social Security is clearly a Con.
And our welfare state is clearly heading in the direction of Greece - just not as fast as some other countries/territories (ie: Puerto Rico).

It somewhat amazes me that, with all the looting, there is still a lot of producers/wealth production. One wonders how long the producers will tolerate all the free loaders - and how slowly/fast the system will change/collapse.

lol Yes,

Do you mean principal?

I never get tired of saying this: Ida May Fullep was the first recipient of a Social Security check. She had paid $22.54 into the system prior to her retirement. She lived to be 100. She had been paid $22,888.92 when she died. The Socialistic idiots who created the program had projected that average lifespan for a male, then 64 years, would not increase.
What went went wrong, Michael? We are living too long. Either we have to scrap the system or go bankrupt. There are no other choices left.

Wow Michael, I am not to far behind you in years but I have about 6 more years before I qualify for SS. I plan to take my 401K and blow it on some property in Mexico or Belize with a house, all paid for up front. Then live off my savings and military retirement until 62, then SS, if there is anything left or the dollar has not tanked. I figure all the Mexicans will be here so it will nice and safe on the beach in Tulum or move to Belize as my parents live there, at least it is still cheap there. Unfortunately I have to keep paying taxes as a US Citizen or I lose my military retirement, so I will lose 30% or so to good old Uncle Sam. What I don't spend on housing and property, I will invest in more investment property wherever I am as the stock market and bonds are nothing but a casino and the house always wins.

Pure Con

Some basic math will prove it very definitively.

If you work at $10.00 per hour for 40 hours per week for 40 years and average 6% on your investment saving what the government gets for Social Security and Medicare you would have over $1 million dollars to retire on. The interest alone would provide an income equivalent to $28 dollars an hour for the rest of your life with the principle left to provide to your children.

You have no principle with SS and you have $2000 a month verses $5000 a month based on current benefits and the numbers above.

Any way you slice it, that is a con, and a very profitable one since they simply blew the money on who knows what and now the only way to pay it out is to steal it form the next generation of workers.

SSI is a CON, and has been ever since implemented.

People should have always been allowed to starve if they are too stupid to save for their own care in the future.

I have posted and can post dozens of articles about simple Janitors and other low income people who retired millionaires, not by screwing others, but by doing a few SIM PLE things.

Work Hard
Live Below your means
Save your money
Invest Your money wisely

http://nypost.com/2015/02/04/frugal-e...

Hard work and a frugal nature and we do not need Government at all to do anything for us other than keep our shores safe so we can enjoy freedom to pursue life, liberty and happiness.