I did see that. That may enhance our chances when full chaos happens eventually.

I don't know if you followed my other post, but a real good chance at putting together a gold mine in a very remote canyon - about as remote as you can get in the lower 48, just got eviscerated by the sage grouse plan of the Department of the Inferior.

There are some pissed off people.

'Derivatives??? didn't they try this crap before?
I'm thinking I should sell my gold...

Citigroup and JPMorgan are two different entities.

That was pretty much the way I saw it too, Flootus. If we ever have a physical Gulch, you and I will be partners. You mine, and I would refine. I am a chemical engineer and materials scientist.

Not currently. However the sagging price and the rising AISC (All In Sustained Costs) of gold mining is causing producers to tighten up mine designs. That means high grading the best of the deposits leaving a lot of lower grade rock behind.

Then it takes much higher prices to warrant going back in to get the low grade that is all that is left. So less ounces produced leading to reduced supply leading to rising prices with demand? In a normal economy, yes. But the precious metals markets are highly manipulated as this derivative play suggests. There can be a disconnect between derivatives and Comex prices but it is also so intertwined it can get mind boggling. And by then, they have removed the mining district from mineral entry because of sage grouse or some other trounced up critter.

That will all change when fiat currencies collapse. Precious metals are the only real money despite all the propaganda saying they are just commodities.

An ounce of gold bought you a high end suit and dapper shoes in 1796. Today, a top drawer suit and shoes will cost - about an ounce of gold.

Gold Miner Floot

F.F.A.
That is much too rational. Are you attempting sanity in an insane world?

Aren't we all stocking up on gold? So if that is not included in their little outstanding tirade, what do wed care. I am sure we will see the fall of the paper dollar, its only a matter of time. I have already begun building my bartering system and groups.

As derivatives are nothing but paper fiat, they too are headed for disaster. Big bonfires are ahead.

If the schmo deals only with other gold-wise schmos, he might get a fair exchange.
In other words, stop using the enemy's currency and start using one that has some value.
A merchant doesn't have to be illegal either. He just has to set his own "exchange rate" for gold to USD.
Example: I might sell my time for $10,000 USD an hour but I will take 1/10 oz 999 gold ($Galts Gulch) for an hour work. Effectively i would only make sales to Gulchers (assuming they need and value my services) but I would be willing to take USD (and immediately exchange them for gold at manipulated fiat market value.) In reality I would be on strike, except to Gulch customers.

The USD went up so it sort of makes sense, if you ignore how pathetic and manipulated the USD is. (grin)

Let's see if I can stuff this info. into my little pea brain. It looks as if they're going to screw up precious metals like they screwed up paper money. Soon the average schmo is going to get screwed when the collapse comes no matter how he twists and turns and saves and acts responsibly. To quote a perceptive rock band, "Same as it ever was."

The net effect of Citigroup and JPMorganChase owning all of the precious metals derivatives is that gold prices are going down today after the Greek debt repudiation. How contradictory to what makes sense!

And the TBTF banks are creating the rules that the government uses to destroy small banks (and S&Ls) to the advantage of TBTF banks. "consolidation" of the banking business into a cartel of TBTF banks didn't happen by free market forces.

The prices of precious metals are not tied right now to the cost of mining the metals. That can't last indefinitely, but it might last longer than we do.

I agree with you on both points! I don't know what it means exactly except that it ain't good! Long before this article I've seen enough to know all the currency and metals markets are being manipulated to such a degree that we are headed for a major financial earthquake when the laws of economics reveal themselves.

This is an interesting story, but I will honestly admit that I am not sure what it means. Two different huge banks with huge bets on the precious metals derivatives market is pretty scary.