I posed the question because, for me, it nagged at my life for about
27 years. . when I "broke out" of the loop, I felt much more human. -- j
.

I am objectivist and Christian and would appreciate your cutting me
some slack. . well, at least I try to be both objectivist and Christian.
with my foundation from Rand at age 15, and then 27 years of atheism,
I learned to integrate the wisdom of Christianity into my view of life.
there is no room for altruism. . there is room for a healthy dose of
charity, a strong seam of humility, an intense desire for knowledge
from any reasonable source, and there is room for optimism. . I am
now 66 and hope to keep on for awhile longer.

most of the interactions on this forum are rational and respectful.
I intend that mine are always so. -- j
.

why, they can too. . I use reason daily to live my life, and use "faith" as
a label for the unknown, the set-aside for later, the mysteries out of my reach. -- j

it is interesting that you want to assign someone else's Christianity to me.
I reject that. . my Christianity is mine and it is derived specifically from
Ayn Rand's objectivism and my own insights, using everything which
I have learned in life. . 66 years' worth of effort. . and I agree with your
assessment of original sin. . my "original sin" was joining the church
with a crowd at age 9 for social purposes. . I have learned since
that conformity is suicide.

Thank You for the book recommendations!!! -- j
.

I mean it as I meant it when I was atheist. . no difference. -- j
.

only too often, that is true. . the moocher and looter join forces
and attack the producers. . taking the oath is essential, yet
there are people (perhaps not here) who lie their way through life. -- j
.

that's why I keep trying to simplify with the definition which
people don't want to accept. . oh well;;; we try. -- j
.

I adore this refutation, clever one!!! . my definition doesn't fall into
this trap, however. . the unknown. . enough said. -- j
.

Esceptico, I appreciate your research. . I do not know the history
as well as you might. . and I carry no grudges except for liars
and thieves who steal OUR money and lives and our nation
in the name of compassion (meaning a desire for power.)

I was a professed atheist from age 15 to 42, and have a very
serious appreciation for the views held there. . my life is better
because I appreciate you and IndianaGary and khalling and XenokRoy
and woodlema and everyone who admires Rand, out of my
two-element expansion of Rand's knowledge which I have
already cited. . the 51 percent rule works.

I mentioned the cursing because it is the last vice which I have left.
if I used vile words and tried to elicit emotion instead of rationality,
it would not serve our purpose here -- advancement of knowledge.

I am curious about the second person named Jesus -- that's
an interesting thing which I have not heard. -- j
.

altruism is not the basis of the religious view which I am attempting
to explain here, Gary. . altruism is anathema to a reasonable person
who wants to have the maximum positive impact on his own life.
charity is fun, self-centered and reasonable. . I take the oath
as a charitable person, not an altruistic one. . and I use
the term "faith" to label the unknown. -- j
.

In the real Gulch if it comes into existance we are not there for any of the above query. None of that belongs in the Gulch! In place we are creators without the world watching and waitng to steal the next great idea.
It is where the creative,rational mind will thrive each step taken the closer that the inhabitants become the "Ubermench". Then these magnificent peoples will profit handsomely from their creations.

Esceptico, I am trying to support you. . I have given a tentative definition
of the unknowable or unknown, and I have tried to explain how a
rational person could reasonably use the word "faith" to represent
confidence in a unknown condition or thing, like -- well -- gravity.
there is never any desire to, or attempt to, change your view
of rationality or evidence or proof or truth. . my purpose is simply
to add to the understanding of labeling and thought processes.
the use of a term to describe gravity is smart, since it is with us
constantly. . the use of a term to describe the extraordinary elegance
in the order of the universe might also serve us. . and it should never
be used as an offensive weapon, as many do. -- j
.

I think that Galt was showing off. . both his knowledge and
his tolerance for torture. . tough guy.

if you sense that I am getting antagonistic or offended, you might
be inferring it yourself. . I am just caring for my fellow gulchers in a
creative way which might be positive for us. . or not. . I will never ask
that anyone give up reason. . that is stupid and suicidal. -- j
.

we are glad that you are here, IG!!! -- j
.

again, I have already defined God for you, sir::: the unknown.
if we divide reality into two parts -- the known and the unknown,
and we choose to name the latter, what might we call it? . Herman? -- j
.

I have already defined God for you, sir::: the unknown.
if we divide reality into two parts -- the known and the unknown,
and we choose to name the latter, what might we call it? . your choice. -- j
.

john; txs for the vote for whatever reason, though I don't do this for votes. I participate on this site with the intent of assisting those that find an interest, either through the movie or AS or other means, to gain in their confidence that their interest, search, and learning of AR's philosophy is worthwhile to their lives. And to assist in the effort to refute those that try to spread misinformation, attack AR, and confuse those that are in the process of becoming comfortable with the philosophy of Objectivism. There are times this endeavor becomes a tad tiring, and I must admit this conversation is rapidly approaching that level.

I think your step past Ayn Rand in your understanding is a sadly truthful statement from the perspective of your belief system and clearly identifies you as a non-Objectivist. If your constructed philosophy works for you and makes you happy with your life, I wish you well, but it's not Objectivism.

In response to your comment above, Item 1: Words have meanings and it is critical to the understanding of AR's work as well as the majority of reality. I notice that many that approach these discussions from a religious and faith basis often are either confused (or intentionally appear to be) about the definitions of words they use. And they are generally adept at appearing to be disingenuous in their usages. Faith is a belief in something that is unprovable or an expression of hope that some result will occur with no evidence for that hope, and even in the face of evidence to the contrary--most often with some form of religious and/or superstitious belief behind it. I note that you combine faith with the term unknown, as if there exists things that can't be known. That's an old argument from some 300BC called Pyrrhonism, that was famously adopted and used extensively by Roman Catholics in arguments supporting the church. Both of these are antithetical to Objectivism.

For your Item 2: I received my first copy of "The Power of Positive Thinking" when I was 6 or 7 yrs old. I'm sad to say that my personal experiences in life beginning with my Father's untimely death when I was 51/2 with three younger brothers and the 4th on the way at the time, spending the next several years in a shack with one bedroom for the 6 of us-no running water-enough electricity for a couple of lights and a small fan-and food that we raised or harvested from the wild, and the first man in my life trying to kill me by gutting me with a knife at 14 all taught me a different set of lessons. It's nice to have a positive outlook with the people you meet and events that happen in your life, but in mine-you'd better be prepared to work your ass off, have the skills and knowledge needed, trust people only far enough to not be able to harm you, and be ready and able to defend yourself. This world and life are fantastic, but reality can and will bite you in the butt.

People lie, cheat, steal, and kill. Storms come and earthquakes and volcanoes happen. There are snakes, spiders, mountain lions, and poison mushrooms. I've seen and experienced all those and more and come through them whole. Not because of faith, the unknown, hope, love, and a positive outlook -- but Objectivism.

they do, quite often, don't you think? . why is BHO's buddy Sharpton called "reverend?" -- j
.

could there be a spark of wisdom which we're missing, here?
I have never been in a physical fight ... but once. . I was attacked by
a bully when I was a kid, maybe 12. . he wanted someone to beat up,
it seemed, just for "fun." . he started out by saying something like
"I don't like your attitude." . so, I agreed. . then, he said, "and your
mother dresses you funny." . so, I agreed. . then he hit me
a couple of times to no effect, and left. . I had taken the fun out of it.

people can, on a trial basis, extend a hand of optimistic rationality
to their enemy, to the scammer, to the thief, to the rapist, and once
in a while there will be a positive response. . if not, like Heinlein said,
they can use force with impunity. . in self defense.
this is a tactic which some consider wise. -- j
.

Thank You, John;;; I agree. . I have a lot of fun
in supporting those less fortunate -- for personal
gratification. -- j
.

I wish that you were my next-door-neighbor, Herb -- you would be
a good guy to share the holidays, like the 4th, with!!! -- j
.

Thank You, allosaur. -- j
.

yes, lovemaking is an essential part of life, and these days we can
prevent conception with nearly complete certainty. . yet life does begin
when the sperm and egg unite, so the woman's body is the host of
a new life which she may choose to end. . we do not, as a society,
generally consider this murder. . but many among us do. . imho. -- j
.

Please go argue your mysticism and rejection of reason on WND or some other site that enjoys your faith in the face of reality. It's tiresome.
If you wish to discuss reason and reality, this is your forum. If you wish to recruit worshippers of an unknowable contradiction, then go away. You are wasting your breath, and more importantly our precious time.