The Common Core is only hype.

Posted by rlewellen 6 years, 4 months ago to Education
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A name by any other name is still just a name look at the example this mother presents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZEGijN_8...
SOURCE URL: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/06/18/the-common-cores-fundamental-trouble/


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  • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
    Here is a case where the "process-driven" math method is the right one, because we didn't care about the answer, we wanted to watch how people's mind's worked. We had a big campus, with a lot of geese on it in the fall. The "math" question was, is each goose deposits poop the size of this Tootsie Roll, how long will it be before this area of the campus is covered with goose poop? It's more fun if you then eat the Tootsie Roll, but only with 12 & 13-year-olds.

    How do you go about solving this problem? You can't really count the geese, they walk around. They fly away. Can you estimate the total number of geese from a reasonable smaller area? Ho much area does each goose poop take up? etc, etc.....who cares what the answer is? But if I have a kid who doesn't know how to calculate the area under discussion [or poop], I can work to remedy that. If I have a kid who doesn't take into account the fact that the geese are there even when school is out, that's a weakness.
    The Wizard says"the number of goose poops per goose per unit time...." or somethings like that. there was much giggling as we recalled this activity.
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  • Posted by 6 years, 4 months ago
    They are indoctinating kids into a collectivist mentality with the propoganda that is included. Do you think adding standards changes the student's progress or ability?
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
      What happens if a student reaches the standard too early? What do you suppose happens then?
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      • Posted by $ WillH 6 years, 4 months ago
        This is my biggest concern. We did some grade level placement testing last week with my 6 year old. She is in 1st grade but tested between grade levels 2.3 and 3.5 on the various tests.

        We noticed last year when she was in public school that she was being sent to her own individual playtime while the teacher was trying to get the slower members of the class to learn the lesson. Now I am not saying that those children should not get an education, of course they should, but at the same time it takes progress away from brighter children to be forced to wait on them. I think this will be an even bigger factor in the Common Corpse “educational” program.
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        • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
          This is what has always happened to bright kids. Either that, or they get more worksheets to do, or they get to help the ones who don't understand it yet. Occasional help is one thing, constantly being required to help others is slavery.
          That "teacher" should have had extra questions, materials, books, etc. for ANYONE who was working faster. Why didn't she? If 1 kid gets other things to do, more kids will want other things to do. Yeah, and? The "teacher" will have to teach 20 different curricula!! Oh, horrors! That's what real teachers do.
          They also say to kids "Come walk a bit with me and let's talk about that." old Greek custom.

          I assume, from your language, that your daughter is no longer in public school?
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
          This is one of my biggest complaints... class size and the fact that they don't have same level kids together. First: too many kids in a room. Again, if we really cared about educating kids we would NOT have 30 kids in one room..it's an impossible task to get the best teaching/learning in when there's no one-on-one time (the only one-on-one they get is when they're being tested and that's NOT teaching/learning time arg! And don't get me started with the amount of testing that goes on either.) Second: Each class has 4 levels ranging from highest to lowest in the learned (smarts) department...why not have kids with their own level and they can bump up, or down, to the next level as they earn it? BECAUSE the higher kids end up being mini teachers for the lower kids. They spread them out in the classrooms to 'help' the other kids during lessons because there is too many kids to manage. I really really hate this. These higher kids should be getting one on one (like the rest of them ) to get as advanced as they can go...but they aren't..they're getting held back and pigeon holed. Makes me sad to watch this happening.
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          • Posted by 6 years, 4 months ago
            They are eliminating Special Education in favor of mainstreaming. They are trying to make teachers stop spending so much time lecturing and walk around the room to check on each students progress and use peer assisted groups. I did observations and I saw a girl who was struggling. The teacher didn't take the time to listen well enough and walked on. The girl didn't want to ask again she said that always happens.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
              I STRESS asking questions. I say it all the time..whenEVER you have a question, ask if you don't understand the answer then ask again until you do. I even said the other day, "I've been thinking...we have a huge problem in this country with people not asking questions. It is a very important thing to do. Always always ask questions." Some times I just can't help myself.
              Our school has just expanding the special ED . and E.D. classrooms...BUT there are some serious class disrupters that shouldn't be in a main stream class setting.. behavior management is so time consuming and unfair to everyone else. But that brings this back around to class size again.
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            • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 6 years, 4 months ago
              Aarrrgh! That's terrible! And that is how that student will continue to approach the issue of asking for help if she doesn't understand something. This whole "I can't be bothered" mentality is eroding any thirst for knowledge these students may have started out with. This sickens me.
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          • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
            makes me FURIOUS to watch this happening. It was the reason for my own shrug: I denied them my talents for more than 20 years, and worked for almost nothing at a school which did it right.
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 6 years, 4 months ago
            "Again, if we really cared about educating kids we would NOT have 30 kids in one room."

            Yeah this is why they don't have any of those thousand seat auditoriums in colleges.

            Every class I went to had between 30 and 40 kids in it. I think you're mistaking the problem as class size when it's really *school* size.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
              You JUST did it! "Every class I went to had between 30 and 40 kids in it." So if you did it, or if that's the way it's always been it must be the right way to do it?? NO. and I'm not talking about college either!
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
          By 'learning' do you mean 'teaching'? There shouldn't BE peer assisted learning... that is being your brother's keeper (socialism 101). ..and it has no place anywhere let alone education. It is not a student's job to teach other students. It's wrong.
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          • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
            Like most things, if designed correctly, both students end up learned. If designed incorrectly [as is usual] it's ghastly. The smarter kid ends up feeling like being smarter isn't a good thing. [hmmm...sounds autobiographical to me...]
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          • Posted by 6 years, 4 months ago
            I don't want to place all the blame at the teachers feet. I saw some great teachers doing great things. I saw other classes the teacher could not control. There are good teachers stuck in a system they did not build. There are schools stuck in areas where the money never makes it down to the school from the board of ed. Yes I realize they have great union jobs but imagine trying to do the impossible day after day.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
              But they sign up for it and I see NONE of them fighting for anything different. In fact I'm not even sure they know what to fight for, or if they even want to fight. Class sizes have been too big for decades and decades now...they don't know any different and think that's just the way it's always been. WRONG! Or they just want to ride out their time til they retire with full bennies. Again..either way the kids get lost in the shuffle. And speaking of Unions...public sector jobs should not even have them. They get paid with tax dollars and it's a conflict of interest. Plus they support all the things that work against real education...AND they support the liberal agenda and spends chunks on said candidates... it's cronyism and has NO place in the education of kids (except to indoctrinate so they grow up and vote for the collective). And the waste of funding...dear God! The new thing is to build fences around schools....to keep them "safe". What a waste of tax dollars for nothing but a false sense of security that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Actually a hill of bean would be a better option.
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
                P.S.... I attempted to do the impossible once (sell out for a good paycheck and benefits) and I couldn't do it. (Actually the attempt was more of an act until I could figure things out.) We all have choices. If they stay teaching under this common core albatross then THEY are choosing to do...regardless of promises that were made to them, regardless of what they'll lose if they leave. They are not victims. A=A.
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                • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
                  see my shrugging note that ended up below.

                  I would not work for them for any amount of money, even if they promised I could change things. The system corrupts what it touches.
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                • Posted by 6 years, 4 months ago
                  50 years old waiting on retirement is not a good time to look for a new career, but you are right.they are not victims.
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
                    Most can retire at 50 so they aren't that old, but I never ever said it was "easy"..it being easy is not the point at all. Capitulating with evil because it's the easier choice doesn't make it less evil. They can't blame others for their own decision to not fight it, call it what it is, be honest with parents and others, or for staying put and keeping silent. At the very least be vocal about the truth. Again, like I've said before...people are WEAK and can be bought. Yet some how I'm supposed to buy into the idea that they have student education as a priority. Hmpf
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          • Posted by 6 years, 4 months ago
            Yes, that is their lingo. It is teaching. It is wrong. It holds some back and it doesn't ensure the other kids get the right information either.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
              It is so sad. I point this out and the response I get back is, "but it helps me out so much...I can't stay on top of them (the low ones) by myself." Pisses me off.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 4 months ago
    Thanks for posting. CC is not the statist conspiracy people imagine. Look at the points in this article:
    - CC will lead to more charter schools and private schools.
    - CC focuses on getting kids career ready instead of college ready.
    I don't get what the big deal about it is.
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    • Posted by $ WillH 6 years, 4 months ago
      One big issue with Common Corpse is that it departs from the right vs. wrong method of education and instead embraces a “thought process” method of education concentrating on how a child reaches an answer instead of if that answer is correct or not. They then attempt to steer that thinking method to one that the government has decided is proper to reach the right answer.

      On the surface it does not sound so bad, but what is the government going to do with this thought process steering? Think about children suspended for playing cowboys and Indians and biting food into gun shapes. Now, what is it going to look like when the teachers who cannot separate their liberal agenda from their job as educators start teaching the constitution? What are they going to teach? Will it be individual responsibility and freedom or will it be fall in line little lemmings?
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 4 months ago
        We should teach value-neutral reasoning. I strongly agree with teaching critical thinking. If it's done right, it won't steer people toward one answer.

        I completely reject suspending kids for playing cops and robbers with pretend guns. If that's part of Common Core, people should say so.

        I have no liberal agenda, but I probably come at things from liberal values. I really don't want kids learning any value system, just as I don't want liberal news-- I want the truth, not what happens to work with my value system.

        If Common Core calls for not allowing kids to play cops and robbers, I'm strongly against that point. Let kids be kids.
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        • Posted by $ WillH 6 years, 4 months ago
          Suspending kids for playing cops and robbers is not pat of CC. It is part of the liberal agenda that is effecting our schools with the replacement of reason with logic.

          As far as I can tell there is no liberal values, except self destruction. Liberal values are take money from group A and give it to group B, then takes rights away from both groups for the common good. Liberalism is unsustainable.
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        • Posted by flanap 6 years, 4 months ago
          "We should teach value-neutral reasoning. I strongly agree with teaching critical thinking. If it's done right, it won't steer people toward one answer."

          If any answer is ok, then by definition, there is no right and wrong. For example, if a child develops a genius method to murder a person, that is ok under this reasoning, and we are to appreciate the process in how they came up with it and not be concerned with the death of someone in cold blood.

          I am sure you are intelligent enough to see that some singular answers are required. By the way, you yourself admit there is right and wrong by your stating that "if it is done right." Who determines, then, whether it was done right and at what point have enough diverse results manifest success?
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 6 years, 4 months ago
        They already (in the name of large class management) have them marching quietly in line. Making lemmings.
        The whole math thing....as long as the "process" is right then it is considered correct even if the wrong answer is given...if the process is wrong but the answer is correct..then it is incorrect.. Um excuse me...math has exact answers, it's either right or it's wrong...it's LOGICAL.. not emotional...but they've managed to take the logic out and put in emotions. It's up to some higher power (the teacher) to decide if it's right or wrong...not dependent on math facts. Trains them to seek approval from superiors because they know better. barf
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        • Posted by flanap 6 years, 4 months ago
          By definition, if a process is right, then the answer has to be right; else, the process is wrong.

          The problem is how do you know whether the process is right when the results are valueless? Is it a study of a process for the sake of process? This just creates a bunch of oatmeal headed dumbcocks.

          Am I the only one in the world who can see right through all of this? People, you must see that this is all designed to get rid of any reason for children to look for absolute answers found in God, our Creator. He is the only one with the final answers, else, if man is said to have the final answers, at what point and what iteration of man's thinking do we consider the answers really final?

          Science isn't useless because we acknowledge a Creator outside of ourselves. Science is enhance by the fact that absolutes exists and repeatable results are possible. What hinders science is speculation outside of actual science, which truly leaves science and enters the metaphysical. You can see this in the Climate Change (doesn't the climate change everyday?)/Global Warming hoax where science has reached a "consensus." I guarantee that any textbook on the scientific method doesn't say you have a theory based on consensus, but instead based on repeatable results. Evolution is metaphysical, not scientific.

          Oh may the nations awake and realize you are not smarter than our Creator. I grieve so much for where we are headed.
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    • Posted by flanap 6 years, 4 months ago
      The big deal is what is truly driving this. Nothing just pops up out of nowhere and is hailed as some great idea. CC is all about the type of citizen the world needs to fit the Agenda 21, communicated in Rio in the early 1990's. I have watched several hours of YouTube videos from educators that understand education in order to let folks make decisions about their life and not be geared into some predetermined career or path. You will note that even the media and many others have changed the way they refer to those who are employed in this country. They are now called "workers," not "employees." There is a difference. "Workers" are for the state; "employees" are for themselves.
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    • Posted by khalling 6 years, 4 months ago
      There's a ton of revisionist history and social agenda built into all of the curriculum from math story problems to langauge arts starting at the earliest grade levels. The amount of testing is increasing, and so the learning process shifts to
      teaching to testing not as much about critical thinking, which is essential for independent thinking and problem solving. The more you are taught to test, the less you learn to stand back and question...anything.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 4 months ago
      There are some Charter schools for spanish speaking only segregate lately? Charter Schools may work in some cases, but so do some public schools in good wealthy neighborhoods.
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      • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
        what does "work" mean, as applied to schools? Too often it means that kids score high on government-and-school bureaucracy-designed tests. When's the last time most adults took a standardized test? What's so important about kids learning to do it, then?
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 4 months ago
        The best solution is to provide each child a voucher and allow the parent(s)/guardian(s) to choose where to apply that voucher. Of course, there would need to be some entity that would certify what could call itself a school and receive the voucher. Local school "boards" made up of elected citizens would be a good method. They would review and "certify" in their geographic area.
        Variety is good, as is control as close to the activity as possible.
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        • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
          "Of course" there would have to be some certifying entity? Sez who?
          Most private schools only go through 8th grade - ever wonder why? Because the state-mandated requirements to be a "high school" are so onerous and expensive that most private schools choose not to attempt to meet them.
          A government-run entity will produce a government school, no matter what you call it.
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 4 months ago
            There would need to be some means of ensuring that the voucher money weren't merely going to sham organizations. Without some type of validation, what would pop-up in many urban centers would be sham "schools" which would cash the voucher and split the money. That would be a waste, of money and a potentially productive life.
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            • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
              Only if people didn't do their homework [pun intended] and spent their money foolishly. Sounds like a wonderful learning opportunity, to me.
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 4 months ago
                crack whores, petty thieves, those who just have no concern about their children - just some who would gladly sell their voucher (and kids) for 10 cents on the dollar to get drugs or other items that don't benefit their children.
                You seem to think that everyone will act rationally and in the best interests of their children. Such a funding mechanism must provide some means of ensuring that the funds wouldn't just be a sham.
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                • Posted by $ winterwind 6 years, 4 months ago
                  I KNOW that not everyone will act rationally and in the best interest of their children.
                  BUT if you're going to put a "certification body" in place, what makes you think THEY will act rationally and in the best interest of anyone's children? They certainly don't now.

                  I really mean it, it's a learning opportunity. You sell your voucher and split the proceeds and your child doesn't go to school. A huge number of events follow that, including one in which the 12-year-old kid says, no, you can't sell my voucher! I think motorcycles are cool, and I like being around them, but the garage won't let me work on them because I can't read. I'm going to learn, and you can't stop me.

                  Bad ideas have to stop somewhere; bad ideas which support bad behavior choices REALLY have to stop somewhere. Why not here and now? or, see if you can tell me how you would constitute this certification body so I that could approve of it.
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                  • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 4 months ago
                    That's why it needs to be as close to the child as possible. Ideally it would be made up of the parents.
                    You really think a 12 year old would have that conversation? I don't. If they had not been nurtured to that point, they would already have been lost.
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