I'm dealing with a youngster with the emergence of the outfall from this sick behavior. We cut out cancers. Mortal fear is the only restriction an animal understands.

If you meet one...call me. I'm dealing with an abused youngster. Heinous acts!
We indiscriminately kill cancers, virus and bacterium in the daily battle for survival. The only thing a human animal understands as a restriction is that of fear...mortal fear.
And, like you, I'll not say more.

macro, no. it is different. children vs adults. completely different worlds. the more you tie it to homosexuality in this forum, the more you nail into your own coffin. this audience will run pedophiles out on rail. done. I disagree that you know the instant you are homosexual. that doesn't square. do you have feelings that point you in that direction? yes. and you interpolate. but this post isn't about that. start your own and frame the argument if you like. This post was a heads up on evil.

Not only are they intellectually immature, more so they're emotionally immature. Any argument based on sexual maturity alone rejects/ignores the other two and carries us back to the days of 30 and 40 year life spans. We've overcome that condition through application of reason, and in doing so, we have begun the path of non-evolutionary driven development of our species. Society has recognized the necessity of maturity, in today's interactions, as a vulnerability to be protected based to a large extent on actual experiences observed and measured during the last century or two.

In our society today, the three; intellectual, emotional, and sexual maturity are essential to the total well-being of an individual. Taking advantage of the sexual drives of a teenager lacking either or both intellectual and emotional maturity is criminal since it harms that individual's present and future. Doing so for simple satisfaction of sexual urges and drives makes it worse and the typical arguments are based on sexual maturity and supposed consent, but relegates the harm to the individual in today's society to non-essential and neglects fully informed consent requirements. A 14 year old mother is not capable of raising a baby. The baby's not going to develop well, the mother's not going to achieve intellectual and emotional growth needed to participate in our society, and the father - well, that type of man isn't going to be there. He's moved on to another victim. If caught, he needs to be punished.

But, taking advantage of a pre-pubescent child can only be seen as destructive to the basic psych of a child, without even the thin excuse of sexual maturity. A defiler of this type needs to be removed from society, even after actual or chemical castration, he'll still offend because it's not about sex or attraction. It's sadistic.

excellent point.

But the comparison was quite valid! A master manipulator could be of any sexual orientation, I suppose. There are so many straight men who manipulate drunk girls into having sex. That's even easier than manipulating kids! You know, because they're drunk, and probably unconscious.

Poor girls.

Pedophiles aren't any more evil than a regular person is, also. They aren't psychopaths by nature. They're just unfortunately attracted to something that they know isn't tangible. So, Bad Luck. Any of us could've been born a pedophile, right? But since we're rational people, we wouldn't pursue that.

Really. I don't get why people don't understand that being attracted to something means just that: you're attracted to this something.

By being gay, you can conclude that I get aroused when I see handsome men. It ends there.
Am I more sensitive? Do I hate sports? Do I love Pop Music? Argh! No, no, and no! I may listen to a few Lady Gaga songs but that's it!

lol

So, same with pedos, I suppose. Yes, they're attracted to kids, but that's all you can conclude rationally. Being a pedo doesn't automatically qualify you as potential rapist.
This is quite silly, actually. It's like those feminazis saying that all men are evil by nature just because some of us do rape women. What? No! Not all men are like that!

I don't really follow the 'young boys who think they are gay' phrase. Are you saying that some boys aren't gay, but then someone tells them that they are...? That doesn't make much sense to me haha. If one is gay, he just knows. If one is straight, he just knows. xD

Both of them

yes. but I know irrational 60 year olds...so...

do not put yourself in the same category as a master manipulator-and who is the easiest to manipulate? children. who is second? young boys who think they are gay. I HATE predators. If I meet one...well....

lol. ok.you haven't lost me, just a mother and strong reaction! It is nowhere on the same plane as homosexuality in my book. between two consenting adults...

Yes, it's really hard to detect crimes like that. What makes it even more complicated is that the kids never talk to anyone about the abuse, as they fear retaliation by the offender!
If a kid starts behaving erratically, or is strangely silent, there's always something going on. If we're open enough, they might talk to us about their situation so we can help them.

Well, I think too much emotion ends up clouding our own sense of reason sometimes. We're more than right by being angry at brutal crimes like the one on this page, but I think we should differentiate between these real criminals and those pedophiles who are good people, and that don't act on their desires. They may have been born with this condition, but what's going to determine if they're going to rape a kid or not is their moral code. For example, an Objectivist pedophile would never hurt a kid, as his reason goes against it. He would keep it to himself. A sincere and devote Christian pedophile wouldn't do anything bad as well. ;-)

It makes sense. In this case the person was actually molesting the girl. The trouble with this crime is it may not show up as a bruise would.

The crime also brings out an unusual amount of indignation. Even people who've done horrible things can say "at least I've never abused a child." Little gold stars to those people.

I agree with you. I have two kids. I understand the urge to flip out at child sexual abuse. We should resist that urge and try to be ration about as we are with crimes like armed robbery.

I suppose we should agree to disagree, Khalling? I think we're both tired of this subject, and for every paragraph you write, I end up typing a whole essay haha.

See ya!

I think the only rational conclusion so far, is that they are born with it, as there seems to be strong evidence for why evolution would favor men having sex with younger women. The younger, the healthier the offspring. Reason gets the final word, right?

If a more rational and scientific explanation comes along, I would accept it. Up until now, the evidence suggests it's more likely to be a variation of human sexuality that was more common in the past, but that now our genes have been adapting since we don't consider sex with kids moral anymore. Society changes way faster than our genes can. Like, if we decided that eating meat is immoral, we would new a few thousand years until our genes could catch up and everyone became a vegan! (Oh my)

Yes, it's violent in nature according the current society's values. However, It wasn't violent when nature designed it for us at first, so we can't call it abnormal.

We can say that it's immoral according to our values,
We can say that it's illegal according the Law,
But I don't think we should ever say that, according to science, it is a disorder.

What prevails in science is reason and cold facts, not morals. If eating meat becomes immoral and illegal in the future, and we end up with carnivore genes being present in only 0.4% of the population, should people start saying that it's a pathology or a disorder? The situation is quite similar to that of the genes in pedophilia. Just an old DNA pattern that we don't need to use anymore, but that some people still have inherited it.

Michael Jackson was a hebephile.

"If Jackson did fall outside the norm in his “erotic age orientation”—and we may never know if he did—he was almost certainly what’s called a hebephile, a newly proposed diagnostic classification in which people display a sexual preference for children at the cusp of puberty, between the ages of, roughly, 11 to 14 years of age."

Yes, it can't be cured. It's okay to have it as long as you don't act on it.
The remaining meat-eaters on Earth will have to keep their urges to themselves and not act on it as well. That's consistent, if that's the moral code of the future society, even if I don't agree with it.

Luring and control? Only if the person is bad in nature, and character. I'm attracted to men, am I luring and predating them? People thought homosexuals were some sort of perverts when they were ignorant. Now, they still think most pedophiles are perverts. That's because they're still ignorant.

Their sexual attraction for kids doesn't come with the prone-to-raping-people gene. That's a separate matter which depends solely on their personal moral code, their reason. Some pedophiles are bad people, and they will molest kids, that's true. Most of them are good people, and they will never harm kids, also true, I conclude.

If the person is evil in nature, they will commit evil actions. If they're good, they won't. I can GUARANTEE you that there are tons of loving pedophiles out there who don't harm kids, while there are many rotten straight men molesting their daughters or nieces because his wife isn't giving him enough sex.

If you want your kids safe from molesters, you should be more careful of your own husband, or brother, than of pedophiles. Statistically speaking, I suppose. These men don't have an exclusive attraction to kids, as they can have sex with adult women as well, but they predate on kids if sex availability is scarce.

Yes. Everyone agrees that, if the perp initiates contact, that's another story. Those should be punished! = )

I was discussing prepubescent not 14 year olds. I guess I
am confused. And that is the definition I use for pedophile and unlike homosexuality, I do not buy that they are born with it. I think it is a psychological problem and I 'm sure it can be cured. It is a preditorial pathology and violent in nature since a child has no control. Think Michael Jackson. The pathology is all about luring and control. What would be the cure? The other stuff you 're talking about is illegal but also entrapment. However, if a perp initiates contact that 's another story. another story.

Yes, I suppose I talk a bit too much, Khall! Sorry about that haha. If only I could be a less prolix person!

-X-

On it being a sickness, I can't really disagree, rationally, with this particular quote on 'The Last Psychiatrist'. This person seems to be really spot on:

"The basic issue is that sexual attraction to pubescent youngsters is not the slightest bit abnormal or unusual. Until recently, the age of consent was age 13 years in most parts of the world (including the United States) and it remains 14 in many places. Evolution has programmed humans to lust for pubescent youngsters--our ancestors did not get to live long enough to have the luxury of delaying reproduction. For hundreds of thousands of years, sex followed closely behind puberty. Only recently has society chosen to protect the moratorium of adolescence and to declare as inappropriate and illegal a sexual interest in the pubescent."

However, he still thinks it is a crime though, of course!

"It is natural and no sign of mental illness to feel sexual attraction to pubescent youngsters. But to act on such impulses is, in our society, a reprehensible crime that deserves severe punishment."

On fantasizing, I really don't think that's a problem. I suppose that's the only moral choice available for those who suffer from this problem, right? They were biologically inclined by evolution to have coitus with young females, so they could have healthier offspring, so, they must relieve this tension somehow, without hurting any real children. As long as you know the distinction between fantasy and reality, I don't think there's an issue here, and I believe most of them do know that. I suppose it's more likely that pedophiles in general are very disgusted at themselves, and suffer from a lot of self-hatred, in the same way gay people kill themselves over not being born 'right'. The great majority of them would never hurt a kid. In the same way, when I was younger, I used to tell myself I'd rather die than have sex with men, as I was so damn ashamed of myself.

Repressing it really isn't an option. Wouldn't that be worse? If you tell a straight guy he's not even allowed to ever masturbate to women, the object of his desire, I think he's going to want sex with women even more. (o_o)'

So, it's not, biologically, fantasizing about violence. But it IS violence in our society. I think the most elegant option here is letting them at least fantasize to this natural urge of theirs. The great majority of them knows, I believe, that children are to be protected, not exploited. That's why they hate themselves so much, and as I said, they're more likely to kill themselves over hurting children. Yes, I also don't think putting people in prison for their thoughts is the right solution. Institutionalize? Well, if one has raped or had non-consensual sex with a kid already, I'm all for some kind of registry with their names on it. However, I believe many people today end up in such lists, when they would never have had non-consensual sex with children. And I think that's so absurd!

You know that famous To Catch a Predator Program? Some of the cases were so awful! I mean, in all of the programs, the 14 year-old decoy was so into having sex with the older guy. This decoy always said things like "Yes, I want you. Can you bring condoms? Electric razors? I'm looking forward to it!!". Some of the guys who got caught would never go forward if this girl had said 'Leave me alone!". Isn't that dishonest? I really do sympathize with guys like that. Come on! The 23 year-old guy thought we had found a younger girl who was absolutely OK with them having sex. He only went forward with it because he was sure the child wouldn't be hurt, and that she wanted it as much as he did.

If guys like this one, guys who may not even be pedophiles themselves, end up in some kind of government list that's going to ruin his life, then I'm absolutely against it. This probably was a regular guy, like the ones who say "Whoa! This girl is only 14? She looks way older!"... I felt so terrible for him when he was jailed with real rapists. =(

If the list doesn't include people like him, I'm all for it. We should be aware of the existence of really dangerous people in our neighborhoods!

Haha, I suppose I do know a lot about it. That's because I can't stand injustice! Thanks to being born gay, I can't stand still when I see someone being unjustly criticized or bullied. I always try to fight against the bad guys! xD At first I was like everyone else, I thought pedophiles were scum and should all be chemically castrated, but then I ended up learning more about it on YouTube. I can't really be against them like I was before without being logically inconsistent, and I concluded that on some cases the younger kid is perfectly able to consent to sex. I was, at fourteen. Why should we prioritize an arbitrary number for age as our means of judging someone's sexual maturity instead of sensibly analyzing each case accordingly? I would be so damn disgusted/angry/hateful of my parents and even more of this rotten statist society if they had jailed my possible 23 year old boyfriend for having sex with me when I was 14 and sexually mature enough. /rant

Yes, I also don't think there's a treatment for something that evolution designed for us as a mean of having healthier offspring. If I had a friend, and he told me he thought he was pedophile, I would tell him: "Man, that must suck! I can't really imagine how hard it would be for me if I had been born with that. It must be awful to have an non-tangible object of sexual desire. Hey, but at least you get to watch some japanese lolicon art, right? :D"

I don't think I'm wrong. And if I am, by all means please tell me why. I hate being wrong about my premises, and I like to get them right as soon as possible. =/

See ya!

macro, you and maph have a word for EVERYTHING. lol
here's my deal-yes on getting help. but I still maintain they are not misunderstood. it's a true sickness of the monster kind. fantasizing bout sex with children is really fantasizing about violence since children are to be protected not exploited. While I agree you can't put someone in prison for their thoughts you can institutionalize those who represent a possible danger to others an to themselves. Luckily, I don't know that much about it, but I am skeptical that treatment works for this disease.

It's hard for them to get help when society thinks so ill of them.

If your own kid turned out a pedophile, thanks to his brain being wired differently, do you think he would come to you asking for help? I don't think he would. Why would he risk his love for you for something that's not even his fault? Something out of his control? Something he was born with?

That's even more hard than coming out of the closet. If parent's still kick their kids out of their homes for them being gay, what do you think they would do if their truly benevolent and kind 16 year-old son told them he could only get sexually aroused by thinking about young girls? They would kill him, not help him. It wouldn't matter to them if he sincerely told them he would never act on his desire, or that he would rather kill himself than having sex with a kid.

Yes, it's not OK to have sex with kids, and I can assure you most pedophiles know that and would never harm a kid. All they want is a little bit of compassion, as they were born this way, and they need help.

When people like you don't give them some acceptance, when you hate them, you are only increasing the number of teenage pedophiles killing themselves and, also, the number of kids suffering from sexual abuse when you make them afraid to admit their condition to others, thus discouraging them from seeking treatment.

P.S. A 22 year-old having sex with a 15 year-old shouldn't be a crime if it's consensual. Calling that pedophilia is wrong, also, as these children are not prepubescent anymore. Call it Ephebophilia, as it's more accurate and honest.

It's better to be careful with these laws. Some of them end up causing even more harm to the kids in the long run, I suppose. Not to mention that we've got enough laws already. If we keep making a thousand more of these every year, we won't have any more freedom left in the next decade.

Also, you mentioned Cyrus, but I think we changed for the better. I'd rather have her being a whore on TV than watching priests condemning sex/ homosexuality/masturbation. Come on... Sex is an important part of a person's life, and the kids now know that. If we want them them to be more more sexually responsible, let's just spend more time parenting.

Miley Cyrus is free to perform as she wants to. If parents don't want her to influence their kids, they should turn off the TV. She's just doing her job, and the Market seems to approve of her. People should be free to enjoy bad music, if they want to. xD

And what's the problem with 'exacerbating' some things? If no one is being hurt, people are free to do whatever they want to. You're allowed to dislike what they're doing, but it's immoral for you to want to pass a law in order to stop them. Do you think Colorado was wrong when they legalized marijuana? Was that exacerbating? Should we keep it illegal to protect the young?

Freedom comes first.