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    Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 10 months ago
    No, we don't know how it allegedly worked, but the concept seems to have originated with some of Tesla's later work. Tesla's ideas were apparently based on being able to 'tune' into naturally occurring potential differences in the atmosphere. No one's been able to substantiate any of that experimentally at any kind of useful energy level. Many think that Tesla went a little off his beam in his later years, though his work on the AC motor was genius, as we all can attest to, today or for the last century or so.

    Who knows if he was 'a quarter bubble off' or a misunderstood genius.
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    • Posted by standeyo 8 years, 10 months ago
      When Ayn rand wrote AG it was after the invention of Dr T. Henry Moray had been refused a patent at the US Patent Office (even with a working model that produced 5kw continuously for 159 hours.

      Ayn would certainly have heard about the work of Moray in the circles she ran in. His "free" energy device was covered in the news for over thirty years prior to her writing A.G. It was the perfect model for John Galt's primary power supply for the valley.

      The interesting thing is that Moray's device did exactly what John Galt detailed. It drew electricity out of the air with an antenna.

      As a long-time researcher into Moray's device I am very close to duplicating his wonderful invention. Moray could not explain the source of the electricity from his device and that is (ostensibly) why the US Patent Office denied his application. He described its characteristics in great detail. I talked with his son John but found he did not pay enough attention to his father's research to be able to duplicate it.

      However, I have identified the source of the energy that Moray's device converted to electricity. He gave enough clues to make this possible now. The ultimate source of the energy is the Sun and it's solar wind. As this 'wind' of protons etc constantly bombards the planets of our system, it is a source that is tied to the behavior of the Sun.

      What Moray's device did was to convert the mechanical vibrations created in Earth's charged upper atmospheric layers into voltage variations on a charged antenna. He then trapped these voltage changes into a series of step-down Tesla coils.

      To illustrate the method he used, visualize a comb stroked through the hair and then brought close to a small piece of paper. We all know that at a certain point the paper will jump onto the charged comb. What we have all seen but not dwelt upon is that by moving the comb away from and then back toward the paper we cause the paper to wave back and forth toward the comb. In the case of our charged atmospheric layers they are the 'paper' and the solar wind is the 'comb.'

      Moray charged an antenna with high voltage. Then as the solar wind compressed and decompressed the charged atmosphere all around us the field around his antenna would also compress and decompress. As the antenna was capacitively linked to the charged atmosphere the oscillations of the atmospheric charges made voltage variations occur between the antenna a the ground. Moray made crude, high-voltage diodes to allow some of the increased voltage to be trapped into his step-down Tesla coils.

      Knowing where the energy comes from allows mankind to develop methods to trap that energy and utilize it. I, too, filed a patent application for the basic circuit and concept and the patent office refused it saying that it could not work. Then, they released my application over the internet which was a direct violation of the security promised to all inventors who file.... If the application is denied the USPTO is supposed to keep the application in a secure place to allow the inventor to make changes to his application to make it more acceptable to the reviewers. By releasing my application they did one good thing though. They made the basic concept available to the world so that others might build upon my work and that of Moray.
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      • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
        Stan, Thank You for relating this! . I just wonder how
        Dr. Moray arranged his antenna. . 5 kW is nothing
        to sneeze at, and I am wondering how he did it.
        Thank You Again!!! -- j
        .
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    • Posted by WilliamCharlesCross 8 years, 10 months ago
      Tesla was able to create thunder storms in the streets of New York City. No one understood how he did it because he didn't try to explain it--he just did it. I read one piece that offered the idea that Tesla purposely did not leave behind any clues, instructions or instruments that could be used to figure out what he knew, because he didn't trust mankind. Who knows? He also, tragically, ended up a person who was compelled to count every piece of food and order his plate into sections with 3 peas, etc. Mark Twain was a frequent visitor to Tesla's NYC workshop--a testimonial to his fame, and supporting the idea that Rand knew of his work and based the idea of the motor on it.
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    • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
      Nikola Tesla's laboratory was destroyed by fire at about the time of the Spanish American War. Just imagine what he might have accomplished had that fire never started.
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  • Posted by sdesapio 8 years, 10 months ago
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    • Posted by RobertFl 8 years, 10 months ago
      That's capturing microVolts.
      Any radio transmitter broadcast thousands of watts into the air, but by the time that signals gets to your radio, it's very very small.

      RFID works on this principal.

      I think it was mentioned that Galts motor worked by differential atmospheric electrostatic pressure. I couldn't find the reference.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
      and yet we hear nothing about antennas in AS.....
      what I wish is that we could capture the energy in
      clouds before lightning strikes, and store it for use
      as needed. . almost became an electrical engineer
      over this. -- j
      .
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 10 months ago
        No one has ever explained to me how lightning works. I know air has a breakdown voltage, and once it's exceeded the electricity appears to me to behave completely differently from how it behaves in a wire or semiconductor. I knew a guy in college who had a PT job at a lightning research site, but everything I've learned is just folklore from guys who work with antennas a lot.
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        • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 10 months ago
          Google harder, CG... Lightning is still not fully understood, but there's quite a bit known about it.
          Things like 'leaders' that pass from ground to cloud establishing the path for cloud-to-ground lightning, and so on (I think I got that part right...)

          Just like electrical energy storage for solar and wind, we ain't nowhere near anything that could take the amount of energy in any lightning strike and store it for future use. Maybe in a few decades...

          and, from the patent and articles, " [0013] The ideal energy source for mankind will not add heat to the planet's ecosystem, will not produce by-product green house gases; will not deplete our food and water resources; will not produce toxic wastes; however, it will be portable, self-replenishing and constantly available in real time anywhere on Earth and in useful quantities. " .... Bullshit. Taking piles of energy from any new source and converting it to electrical power WILL eventually dissipate ALL that additional 'power' as heat into the biosphere.

          It's got nowhere else to go. ALL electrical power is eventually dissipated as heat, as are mechanical losses to friction, etc. Thermodynamics still rules. Neither Tesla nor the imaginative power source can avoid that.
          Heat will still be added to the biosphere. It just won't produce combustion byproducts.

          And as for 'clean nuclear,' nobody mentions ALL of the energy that goes into fabricating ALL of the components of the reactors and their fuel. It's not a clean, free lunch.

          As for Galt's motor, can any of you get that it was a fiction story? Tell me that, since the era of Tesla and other inventors, NOBODY has come close to duplicating the mysterious power supply?

          And just about every report y'all have linked smells suspiciously of Pogue Carburetor Conspiracies, which are cute and indefensible since you can't prove they're NOT true... but where's the beef?

          You have not converted this skeptic at all.
          More data, please! More tangible proof.
          Thanks!
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 10 months ago
            I took the motor to be an allegory for any powerful future technology. The details are unimportant. The point is free people will invent things to help one another, and some people produce great inventions.

            Regarding heat pollution, all the energy we could want is trifling compared to the sun.
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            • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 10 months ago
              Metaphor, more likely, but I was commenting on all the Bad Science that was being laid down to explain or defend or support the idea OF Galt's 'motor.'

              Hell, some scientists are starting to think that a 'warp drive' may actually be feasible, but to debate the details of the scripts or diagrams in Star Trek (any Generation) is mental masturbation. It may be fact some day, but at the time of the writing, it was fiction! Ditto, Galt's Motor!
              I don't like wasted energy... mental or hydrocarbon! :)
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              • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
                hear, hear!!! . I hate waste also -- and want a way to capture the
                energy of lightning, to use it as we need it!!! -- j
                .
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                • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 10 months ago
                  Ok, John... if, like many folks, you don't like windmills extracting energy from the wind, how will you feel about locating 'lightning energy collector antennas' (glorified lightning rods) all over the place in order to give that energy a path TO the storage elements of the future?

                  Where should the collectors be located? Obviously in all places more prone to lightning! Your front or back yard or mine? Tops of mountains? Tops of buildings, church spires?

                  And, 'pray tell...' if that energy is siphoned off into super capacitors or mega-batteries, what might just happen as a result?

                  Ecological changes unforeseen because we don't know what would happen if all that energy were directed to our TVs and air conditioners instead of dissipating into the earth or blasting some tree apart?

                  Be careful what you seek... :))))))))
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 10 months ago
      Wow! Converting radio waves into electricity!
      Old dino never imagined.
      That would not have worked during the Jurassic.
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      • Posted by mccannon01 8 years, 10 months ago
        Howdy, Allosaur. Actually, back when T-Rex walked the earth and I was a young'un, I had a thingy called a crystal set. Made many of my own said contraptions from junk parts. No batteries, no plug-in. Just an antenna (a piece of wire to a clothes hanger), crystal, coil (winding of wire on cardboard), a pin to stick the crystal in various spots to get a signal, another piece of wire to a ground, and headphones. The thing had enough power from radio waves to play a local AM station on the headphones. Yep, you could pick up lightning strikes as static pops from who knows how far away, too. Using this energy for something other than listening to tunes is possible.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
          as a retiree, one of the things which I wanted to do
          was to build a good crystal radio. . it was fun, cheap
          and a total success. . kits, instructions, mounted
          crystals and diodes are all out there. . ebay!!! -- j
          .
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          • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 10 months ago
            I made one of those when I was a kid. Then a double-E gave me a simple diode to replace the Galena crystal, and no cat's whisker poking around was needed.
            In my freshman year at RPI, I got a TRF (tuned radio frequency) AM receiver which was like a glorified crystal radio, jacked it into my amplifier and had wonderful quality music at my beck and call.
            Everything else is a refinement. :)
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            • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
              rensselaer? l am impressed!!! -- j
              .
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              • Posted by plusaf 8 years, 10 months ago
                It's a great school and I learned many wonderful things and techniques there. I also flunked out at the end of my sophomore year (0.86 or so GPA for the second semester)... Never needed to learn how to study in high school... caught up with me in my second year there.

                Got back into RPI just in time to NOT go to 'Nam and learned how to study... Made Dean's List my last semester, just as I'd made High School Honor Roll my last semester there, too! (Basically bright but lazy, given the opportunity).

                And I'm not ashamed of any of it.. it's just who I was, who I am and what I did.

                Actually, I'll confess I learned how to do homework the first semester of my senior year when my main squeeze and I agreed to not hop into bed until we'd both finished all of our homework or studies... Great motivator! Worked for me!
                :)
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 10 months ago
      When I was in high school I had a pretty good antenna on my parents' house. When I wasn't using it, sometimes I kept it hooked up to an analog field strength meter. The needle would always deflect some. Occasionally I'd see huge spikes, nearly pinning the needle. I had no spectrum analyzer, so I never found out the source.

      With a good antenna, you can easily deliver a solid fraction of a mW into a 50-ohm load. A phone charger needs about a watt to do any significant charging, more like 5W in a typical charger. I agree with his thing in principle, but it's thousands of times the power required.

      A typical radio station transmits thousands of watts in all directions. Typically you need to catch about a billionth of a watt to get good clear reception.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 10 months ago
        The bigger issue is differentiating the signal you want from background atmospherics caused by storms. These typically drown out weak signals across the spectrum. That's why this device is intriguing - it actually leverages what to any radio operator is just noise!

        As an interesting side note, the oldest radio transmitters in use were called "spark gap" transmitters because that's how they generated Morse code signals. The problem is that just like a lightning strike, the generated signal isn't restricted to a specific band, so the signal shows up across the entire radio spectrum, ie as noise! It was due to this reason that spark-gap transmitters were banned from use in the early 1900's and nearly cut off amateur radio entirely!

        BTW - if you are caught knowingly generating interference using such techniques as spark-gap transmissions you can be fined heavily by the FCC. If you happen to live near an airport you can get sent to prison - interfering with aircraft is a felony.
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  • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 10 months ago
    First: Most of what we know about electricity is just theory. Michael Faraday and others discovered that you could move a conductor around a magnetic field and a current of what we call electricity would be produced. However, Electricity is the name we give to the effect of what we observe. The theories were developed in the 1800's.

    Electricity itself is defined as the "flow of Electrons". Again, this is a theory. There is evidence for the existence of electrons, but not that "flowing electrons" are actually the source of energy that we observe. In fact evidence proves that "flowing electrons" either cannot be the source, or Einstein was wrong.

    My point is: No one knows what electricity is, where it comes from, or where it goes when it returns through ground. When I took Electrical Engineering the first thing I learned about all of the formulas that described how Electricity works, is that they were derived from observation, and many of them had "standards" (the scientific turn for fudge factor), or they would get you "close" (as one of my old teachers used to put it).

    A very many things about electricity and magnetism to not "add up" with the theories. For instance: why is it that you can "magnetize" a piece of iron bar , which theory dictates is the alignment of the magnetic poles of the individual atoms in the bar; without liquifying it? Or that various crystals that are supposedly aligned already do not exhibit magnetism.

    My point is that, sure the Motor in AS was a bit of fiction; or is it? Most of the truly great accomplishments were made by someone with an open, active, educated mind. Only a few of them had degrees, contrary to belief.
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    • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 10 months ago
      Actually, these ideas are not so much theory as they are behavioral models. While it is true that our understanding of what electricity "is" is hazy at best our understanding of what electricity "does" is extensive. This understanding permits us to design all manner of devices that perform useful tasks. As a physicist I have come to accept that knowledge of what something "is" is more of a metaphysical question than a scientific one. Our knowledge of reality is entirely based on our ability to observe what things do and we can only surmise what these things actually are. It's like a box that contains an unknown mechanism. We can observe what the box does and come to understand how that mechanism behaves however, if we cannot open the box the "true" mechanism will forever remain unknown.
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      • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 10 months ago
        I could have not stated this better myself. Of course the greatest progress is made when we open our minds up to the things we don't know that others pass over.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
        Reminds me of Neils Bohr's description of the atom. "It is something, we don't know what, somewhere, we don't know where, doing something, we don't know what."
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  • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 10 months ago
    This would be where the energy would come from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_ene...
    Another, although possibly more expensive possibility: http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/...
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    • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
      I have been supposing simply that the static electricity
      potential in the atmosphere could be captured, rather
      than trying to capture the potential between cosmic
      particles doing a dance. . and storing the energy
      is its own challenge -- batteries are being developed
      which are much better than those in the past. -- j
      .
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      • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 10 months ago
        Actually Electricity isn't "stored" and there is still some debate as to whether static Electricity and Induced electricity are really the same type of power. An actual way to "store" electricity would be a phenomenal advancement.
        As is known at the moment: Electricity can be produced in three ways: Induction - in other words by moving a conductor through magnetic field. Chemical - batteries, and in some cases Electricity can be used to reverse the chemical reactions allowing the original chemicals to be restored. Hall Effect - By applying heat or vibration to a Hall Effect element electricity may be produced, although it is not known exactly how this happens.

        These are the known ways to produce Electricity at present. There is far more that is not known about how it is produced, exactly what it is, and what its actual source or origin is, then is known.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
          Yes! . it is potential energy which is stored, and we
          desperately need something which can store it more
          conveniently than a reservoir on a hill. . if we could
          push electrons up to a higher energy state without
          having them drop back down and emit a photon,
          or if we could charge a capacitor without having
          it self-discharge ... what a challenge for the young-
          at-heart Galts of this world !!! -- j
          .
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  • Posted by VetteGuy 8 years, 10 months ago
    Galt's motor was, of course fictional. When I read the book, I "suspended disbelief" for the sake of the story. In a larger sense, however, "Galt's motor" might be one of those nifty backyard thorium reactors I've heard about. Of course in today's regulatory environment, you would need a staff of several hundred engineers and lawyers to get a license to operate it!
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 10 months ago
    I have done some experimenting with energy out of thin air and the ground. I put a copper rod next to an aluminum rod, isolated from each other and I got a positive 1/2 volt DC with no measurable amps. It seems to vary with environmental conditions; humidity, pressure and the like. Same with earth experiments...seems to vary with moisture content. Seems to me it would take some sophistication to gather enough power to be of any use. Maybe using a 'regeneration' circuit perhaps; like the one used for boosting radio signals. I have no clue, do not have much knowledge in this area.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
      the Cu and Al galvanic reaction gave you the half volt,
      I bet, yet it wasn't strong enough to push much
      current. . I just wish that we could send a couple of
      weather balloons up when it's stormy, hook 'em up
      to some Li-ion batteries, and run our lives until
      it's stormy again. . dreaming. -- j
      .
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  • Posted by woodlema 8 years, 10 months ago
    I have often wondered if you would create a large Saltwater battery and a large bank of capacitors, could you harness a lightning bolt and then return that stored energy back out in a controlled fashion?

    http://www.windpowerengineering.com/feat...
    One lightning bolt can product 10 billion Watts.

    Next Salt Water batteries are easily created and there is plenty of saltwater on this planet to use.
    http://www.nanalyze.com/2013/11/aquion-e...

    Large scale capacitors would have to be used to take the instant charge received from the lightning bolt.

    Right now only 550 Farad capacitors exist.
    http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news....

    There are 500 watts per farad, so the 550 farad capacitor can hold 275,000 watts. That means you would need a bank of at least 37000 of these to harness one bolt of lightning.

    Of course one bolt will power 56 average homes for one day.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 8 years, 10 months ago
    The idea of dark energy and matter should be thought about even though Ayn Rand did not know of these recent concepts. If the dark energy could be caught by a. device of real matter then it's solved. As a very bright young physicist told me dark matter and dark energy are all around us in massive quantities...but know one knows why we cant sense them or what they are. Good ideas and history on this thread.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 10 months ago
      One minor detail: "dark matter" and its corresponding dark energy (though I would ask you to clarify on that one) are referred to as "dark" because they don't interact with normal matter. If you can figure that out you'll have a Nobel waiting for you...
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  • Posted by alztek 8 years, 10 months ago
    Tesla's work at Wardenclyffe was to provide wireless power... maybe that and Tesla's work in Colorado Springs were the inspiration for Galt's motor.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 10 months ago
    Science fiction often stimulates science fact. Jules Vern's "Nautilus" comes to mind as do many of the technologies in "Startrek". John Galt's "motor" is no exception. So from her book and from the movies what do we know about it and do the descriptions provide any insight to real science?
    While it is not mentioned in the book In the movie AS1 reference is made to the Casimir Effect. This is a real phenomena that has been demonstrated in the laboratory. Both the book and the movie mention "atmospheric electricity" and in AS2, and in the book, the motor is described as being cold when it operates. So do these characteristics suggest any "real" scientific principals? The surprising answer is yes. However, they suggest three very different mechanisms.
    The Casimir effect suggests the presence of zero point or vacuum energy and is consistent with the standard model of quantum mechanics.
    Getting cold while producing usable energy suggests a functioning version of "Maxwell's Demon" which extracts energy from vibrating molecules in any substance that is above absolute zero in temperature and cools the substance in the process. And atmospheric electricity relates to static electricity which is very real as anyone that has ever seen a lightning bolt can attest.

    So, from these observations can we conclude that something like Galt's motor can move from fiction into the real world? I think the answer is yes.

    The properties ascribed to the motor if successfully combined into a single technology could produce the vast and free energy described by Rand. In other words, a motor loosely based on these ideas is quite possible.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
    While the book motor was a representative idea of what could be done with the real motor turned on I always thought the static part wasn't a motor but a collector combined with a better storage battery and a more efficient motor to move a car or whatever.

    Looking at the advances in technology today it's another example of possibilities set forth in fiction turning into reality.

    The underlying theme is what you gonna do when the motor is turned off or if the wackos have their way all forms of power are shut down. No problem as long as I have enough spares to get to a more enlightened part of the world.
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