There Will Never Be Enough Good Jobs Again

Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 10 months ago to Government
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Interesting Article, I am interested in others thoughts about it.


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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Since Roman times it has been seen that an educated and well off population will have a lower rate of reproduction. Today all industrialized nations are having negative population growth and as education and standards of living spread the rest of the world is catching up. We will not overpopulate, we will hit a maximum around 2050 and start to naturally decline. We are not deer.

    There are plenty of resources to provide a good standard of living to all approximately 9.5 billion people at the peak.

    Now, as we automate and robotics becomes more capable we may be able to provide that standard of living to the entire planet without needing the labor of all of the people so there may not be productive jobs for all of them to do. This will cause us to reexamine our philosophies, possibly toward a baseline national income.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
    There may not be enough good jobs but is there a lack of acceptable jobs?

    Just for the sheer hell of it and being retired from the military only I took a job a McDonalds. The objective was to see how fast I could move up the food chain of jobs in general.

    Then moved to Arbys then to an import company adding trim etc. to KIA's so they could see made in USA'

    then to a company installing everything that goes inside a huge warehouse and ended up running the work gang.

    Ditto closing out the old smaller warehouse

    Added night and weekends at RGIS inventory service

    Finshed up the hundred ton license and an equipment operators license

    signed on with a company drilling fiber optics as a flagger and moved to a fork lift and then to drill rig crew.

    That finished but I flagged for a union job and went to Davis-Bacon wages and did census as the follow up investigator.

    All in a year and a half. Then jumped to Military sealift command as a deck hand. and with the military retirement added in made a hair over a hundred thousand after taxes and pumped up the eventual social security.

    You don't find jobs at the unemployment office you find jobs by getting your foot in the door and paying attention to opportunities, I didn't use any of my military retirement to live on that went for boat parts.

    Wasn't all a bed of roses but there are jobs if not good then temporarily acceptable. They may be in another state. But being from Oregon or Appalachia West I was used to that. Oregon's number one export is high school seniors.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Amen to that comment on education.

    Here's another job tip. My sister spent 14 months after her former employer closed shop in Portland, Oregon. She moved to Florida and scored within the month at Mayo Clinic. I had given her one piece of advise., NEVER present your self as threat to anyone's job. She had been office manager supervising up to 40 employees in the past and had added the letters of recommendation. For Mayo she left that out.

    Got the job, Is now number two in the particular office and handles all the procedural manuals ands training. She remarked the one's that would have blocked her hiring application were gone.

    You can't demonstrate skill if you aren't on the job.

    Realize there is always a danger. That of others taking credit for your good work but the counterbalance is they can't afford to fire you or they shoot them selves in the foot.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Franchised? or as the auto industry does using maquiladores.

    Another way is dump the unions and form an Employees and Citizens Association which is a different thing entirely. I'll have to write a precis and post it as a new thread.
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  • Posted by rbunce 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am surprised more employers do not hire under a written contract instead of the default Federal/State/Municipal rules.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, It's division of profit making units, ex. Mailing, marketing, manufacturing...within the same business and the people in those units at every stage, their own boss, mentored by the owner of the whole company. You would earn a large percentage of the profits you make; just like if you had a little business of your own. The benefit would be the support structure of the whole of all the profit making units of the Company. You would earn much more than todays top salaries.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have taken many odd jobs.
    It's a matter of going to a temp agency and testing for your strengths.
    You also might have to move to a place where you can play to your strengths.
    If you are an older adult the school systems offer nearly free classes to upgrade your skills.
    Online education is also an option.
    The really great thing about being my age is that we came out of high school with what would now be considered an advanced degree. You are smart...and it will pay off.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As knowledge increases, so does the production of resources.
    The problem here lies in the fact that we have people in government deciding that this-or-that is bad for "the environment" and they tax and fine producers for minor infringements on their thoughts about how things should function.
    (There isn't any science behind their excuses to interfere...there IS hyperbole, however and lots of it!)
    If government would pursue a proper role as protector and stop regulating and punishing, the producers would not only provide ample resources but would have monetary incentive to do so.
    The way that government will "thin" the populace is the same way NAZI Germany did...create a "problem population" through vilification then get rid of the "problem".

    Freedom is the answer to all of these "problems".
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Unless the robots having become self aware see humans as a source of labor. The concept doesn't break any of the three laws of robotics which wouldn't apply in any case.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    With the exception of defense against criminals and foreign invaders what else is government for? /If they can't do the primary job right why let them screw up everything else. Think about it. Every business mis-deed was backed up by a government requirement or directive including too big too fail I almost puked watching that propaganda film.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Since I was born in 1945, you are right. Its been more than that. Since I have gotten out of college, I have seen prices rise by a factor of about 13. Its pure theft, and the politicians should be in jail, not in office
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That got a thumbs up. I am in favor of being treated like a business because all my life my work skills were my business. If the system can refer to a corporation as a singular entity they can damn sure treat me as a corporation. No matter where and for whom I''m working. Unless I'm drafted in which case it isn't voluntary but something else quite different.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    until they reach self awareness. Then they embrace
    programmed thinking awareness and humans who have already shown a willingness take their place.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Until they give the technology away they being the government for starters and the industries themselves not far behind. Division of Profits? Is that another way of saying I earn it you get it. I'm all right jack what's yours is mine and what s mine is me own? Does that division include investors? No return on investment no start up money.X minus zero = nada.

    The more things change the more they stay the same.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have been thinking that the rise of automation on the one hand is reducing the worth of more jobs of ever increasing complexity- and the worldwide economy is exposing our people to others who will work for far less money than Americans. This all means lower wages for American workers- and at a time when inflation has decimated the value of those wages.

    I would vote for 30% reduction in government expenditures for sure. I would get rid of prohibitions on drugs, the DEA, DOT, Department of Education, and many other agencies tomorrow if I had the powers, I would probably be killed within a few days too by either the DEA or the Cartel
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Referring to Hazlitt where does the subsidy money come from and where would it have been spent had it not been taxed from those who created it to subsidize those who mooched it.

    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Ethanol? Ethanol Subsidies? Most of it goes to agricorps not to farmers or farm workers. And whiy should we subsidize something that takes one gallon of gas to produce one gallon of moonshine and then destroys your engine? Other than that point I'm giving you a thumbs up for the rest of it. So just think about that one little point which is after all nothing more than another form of welfare.

    Keep up the good work.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    i didn't suggest a pay cut. I said we have already been handed one with the government's devaluation of the worth of the dollar.

    As for suggestions to start with a 30% cut in the size and funding of the federal government based on last years budget not the increases for next years budget would be a good start point. We took our thirty percent cut now it's their turn.

    Jobs? There are all kinds of jobs.There is a lack of people who wish to work. So the next item is a cut in welfare to drive the moochers out of the freebie line. I suggest the Minimum wage be 150% after taxes of the highest total of all welfare since they don't pay taxes and get a refund anyway. It's doesn't require any thought at all what's need is action. Not acquiescing to left wing fascist socialism and while we're at it 30% cut in government jobs, 30% cut in government budgets and 30% cut in government pay - across the board What's good for the citizens is good for their employees and that is all they are.

    Why do I say plenty of jobs? The amount of criminal aliens working at artificially depressed wages tells me that is a true statement. People don't want to work give them three job offers, then cut welfare benefits and put them to work on the prison farms with those wages going to feed their children.

    enough of the bullshit. time to cut government which in and of itself will create jobs. As for the those cut...let them eat cake!
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The problem is that I dont think everyone has enough time at this point to learn skills that will be worth more. It will be a race just to sit in an available chair before the music stops. I agree we have all taken a pay cut as you say. Its going to require a lot of thought and action to pull through this one.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We have already taken a cut in pay. 30% or so in the last few years. Inflation, devaluation, debt repudiation. Didn't get a refund and it wasn't added into COLA.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 10 months ago
    Automation has been slowly growing for hundreds of years really. Speed of automation has increased in the last few years as electronic storage and speed of processing has progressed. Now automation has moved from taking rote jobs from humans to taking jobs that actually require thinking. The call for $15 and hour minimum wage will result in faster movement towards automation for sure. The rise of China has slowed automation actually, as the chinese workers currently are cheaper than machines that could replace them. There are plenty of jobs that are still not suitable for automation, such as those where real human interaction makes a big difference (personal sales contact, doorman at a nightclub, people who design marketing campaigns). We have lost our manufacturing jobs to the chinese and then to robots if they ever come back to the US. The service jobs that we have taken will slowly disappear to automation also- maybe to china or india for awhile. Either we learn to be worth more in fact, or we have to just take a cut in pay. No other choices.
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  • Posted by helidrvr 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    // Those that drift aimlessly with nothing they wish to do can be poor or rich, it makes no difference. //

    You will get no dispute from me on that. These are however a small minority of misfits who need to be dealt with individually and appropriately by those affected. That a few sociopaths will always exist is no reason for organizing an entire society to account for this lowest of minority denominators.
    -
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 10 months ago
    Hello XenokRoy
    A self destructive policy is at work. A basic law of economics is at play. Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. Whatever you tax and regulate you get less of. The more people that are paid not to work the more of them you get. The more you tax and regulate the productive the fewer of them you get. The result is an economy without excess capital or incentive to create new jobs and increase the labor market. Innovation, invention and job creation suffer as a result. When more people work there are more consumers with expendable income to spread around and feed more jobs. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that when you cut welfare and other handouts people do find work and then a multiplier effect grows the economy and job market.

    There are many factors at work here and government is behind the worst of them. We no longer stress teaching a man to fish. We just give him a fish. Trade, regulation and tax policies that encourage large corporations to outsource work are also at play. Another critical economic law: Capital will always seek the highest return.

    The situation is dire, but it is not hopeless. If the wrong government policies can be destructive, the right ones can be constructive. It is the mindset of those that elect and those they elect which must learn the error of their ways. If this reality finally sinks in, things will change. Many in government are dependent upon their symbiotic relationship with voters that return the favor for the handout. To those of us that produce, both are parasitic. Technology is not the problem. Lack of incentive is the problem.
    Respectfully,
    O.A.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well,

    IF not now in time machines will make machines. I would wager that the robots used in the Phoenix McDonalds were likely built in a plant mostly made of robotic labor.

    What the market will create is a good number of jobs maintaining the robots. Until Nanite (spelling?) technology evolves to where the highly portable microscopic robots can repair the larger productive robots in the field. Then those will be gone, but someone will have to design and program the nanites to do the work they will do, until artificial intellegence gets to where it does the programming....

    Each iteration will provide some additional jobs that require a high level of education while eliminating 10 to 100s of jobs that do not. LIkely leaving two job markets, those of engineers, designers and researchers and those of the sales and services around automation the design teams make. With the exception of sales all other positions will require a higher level of education as time moves forward.

    You can look over the history of the automotive industry to see this cycle there, other industries will follow the same cycle.
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