Hello Ben_C,
Good to hear from you. Great comments. Yes, there are some signs of life returning. CPR has been given. Time for a shot of adrenaline and perhaps a new state and federal government more favorable to manufacturing and the old city may start to resemble what we once knew. The local populace will have to be re-educated... I am not too optimistic, since it has fallen so far, and our governance has so deteriorated. But, if it is to make a comeback it will likely be a long road. Rome wasn't built in a day and its decline did not occur overnight...
Regards,
O.A.

Agree with the last two statements. Coleman Young was the response to "white control" of the city and was the beginning of the downward spiral. Today the center of the city is experiencing a rebirth and will probably follow the path of New Orleans following Katrina - push real estate values up to dismiss non-productive moochers from the city. So far it is working in NOLA and areas such as The Bywater are becoming desirable places to live. Dan Gilbert is investing millions in Detroit creating some really nice real estate. What will happen is that condo's will be sold for weekend getaways to attend concerts, football, baseball, and hockey games. On a lesser scale if will mimic The French Quarter where many people have getaway condos. People won't use them as a primary residence at first but in time many will as businesses slowly relocate in Detroit. Shinola watches and Two James distillery are two examples of under the radar capitalism. Yes, Detroit has a long ways to go but I see the beginnings. I traveled to Hudson's in downtown Detroit when I was a kid in the fifties, so I have watched its rise and fall. But know that there is a saying in the Detroit "gulch" Detroiters stick together." There are some good people that are producers who will get it done in Detroit.

Correct, in the sense that it appears "dropped in" suddenly because unless you lived there or were from there or otherwise paid attention, most people in the country probably didn't think about Detroit until the word "bankruptcy" hit the headlines.

But if you were interested, the "experiment" started in earnest about the early or mid-60's. If the were such a thing as "time-lapse" movie making, Atlas could have been shot there over the past 50 years...it truly is a laboratory and history of failed local and Federal policies...

The more interesting experiment, which I and others have suggested, and is too radical/rational to ever be allowed, it to declare Detroit a true free-trade zone, exempt from all taxes AND regulations, minimum wage etc...and then see how quickly it recovers. Provided, of course, that at the same time the safety of the law-abiding citizens was restored, i.e., the actual proper functions of government. Other big cities like LA get more press about this problem, but Detroit is close to the top of cities with out-of-control violent gang problems. If you don't address that, all else if futile.

Yep... I'm in AZ too. I once saw the city come out and put a lock on the water shut off in a neighbor's yard. Right after he left the neighbor came out of his house with bolt cutters.

I almost agree 100%...except that you're insulting the insane...

Hello LS,
The cities poor management has been unable to repair and maintain the water delivery system which leaks terribly, stop theft of the water or stop the residents from illegally opening hydrants during the summer for fun. Consequently the system loses approx. 15-20% of the produced water. When you add that up with those who fail to pay their bill the cost is considerable.

I have a business associate with a 12 man shop in the City. He is required to pay approx. $3000.00 per month for his water service. He only uses it for the bathrooms, not industrial use. His consumption can not be that high. He does no laundry or showers etc. The City overcharges those it can to cover some of the losses. Unfortunately those are often the businesses. This is just another reason so many businesses have left the city.

I live well outside the city and have well water. Many businesses have moved outside the city to my area in order to avoid these exorbitant fees and thus stay competitive and in business.

The progressive leadership over the last 50 years just can't see the forest for the trees.

Finally there is a Mayor that is trying to get people to pay their bills.

Regards,
O.A.

Where I live in Az., the water company first sends a late bill threatening to shut you water off. If their bill isn't paid in five days or less they come an shut the water off. Then you have to file for arbtration with the company to get the water turned on.

In many ways, Detroit is like having a third world country (or city state) dropped into middle America........and like a laboratory to see what ideas are actually acted on, and what their effects will be in the short and long term

It is Detroit. I live outside of Pittsburgh and now that I think of it we would do the same thing.

On the plus side, there is some significant growth in the downtown area (beyond the casinos). I'm a tech person and for the first time had trouble getting work in the Detroit area starting with the crash of 2008. I gave up and moved out in 2012, but I'm still on a few job boards, and starting around the time of the bankruptcy I am now getting multiple opportunities almost daily from the Detroit area, and most in downtown Detroit. I suspect that most of the jobs will be filled by people from outside the area, or from the suburbs with better schools. There are also some "charter schools" in the area, including Detroit, producing some good high school grads.

But for the most part, the hard core unemployed with minimal labor skills should either get some training (NOT via a public program), or move to a better area for whatever work they are capable of doing.

Amusing in a "black-humor" way (using the term traditionally, not racially): there was a Republican governor a few years back who both made some welfare reforms, but also (seriously) came up with one interesting subsidy program: a one-way bus ticket out of Michigan.

The correct way to fix the problem, you want water delivered to you through the system, pay for it. The "human rights" issue brought up by the UN is nonsense. All these residents have access to water, let them go to the lake and collect water in 5 gal pails and transport back home. Then filter it to make it safe to drink and cook with. All products and services come with a price, if you want it then you must pay for it.

wow! I had no idea on this..

State income tax is 4.25 which is not quite as bad as Wisconsin or Taxachusetts But then you tack on 2.4% for the city which right there is now higher than Wisconsin. Then to top it all off sales tax is 6%.. Now lets see what the citizens are getting for their "fair share" and its obvious why they leave..

No, believe it.

Well I'm glad the city is spending money they don't have to study the best way to fix a problem they created. Unbelievable.

Maybe the people who arent working in Detroit and have no money should move to a place where they can work, or perhaps even try some new skills.
Enough of this entitlement stuff

Interesting that your should mention the tax base, about which you are correct.

In connection to that: not to say there weren't some white racists in Detroit back in the 60's, but the infamous "white flight" to the suburbs (along with a lot of the factories and businesses) was just as much caused by the institution of an onerous city income tax at that time. I'm not sure what the income tax status in the city is now, but if it's the same, it will severely retard any hope of recovery.

And also on the issue of "white flight" and racism, it is a fact that most of the neighboring suburbs that whites moved to back then, are now becoming primarily black, and they are moving from...Detroit. Hmmm, I don't recall any articles on "black flight". Are these blacks racist, too?

I grew up in the Midwest and we regularly traveled through Detroit to visit relatives and friends in Toronto. I remember Detroit when we first started and it was a vibrant prosperous city back in the early 60's. We didn't go in 1968 due to the riots but after that you started to see the changes in the city over the years. The last time I was through there was in 1975 and it was markedly different than what I saw in, say 1965. It is sad what Progressive values do to population center like Detroit, but they did it to themselves. There has not been a Republican Mayor since the 40's sometime, it has all been Dems and corruption that makes Chicago seem mild by comparison. I believe several ex-mayors are in jail, sort of like ex-Illinois Governors. Stay away, far away, I now live in New Mexico, which had it's own corruption called Governor Bill Richardson (D) and pay to play scandal. We have hopefully recovered from that but certain D families still rule politics, like the Lujans and Udalls. Corruption is everywhere and you have to keep a lookout for it.

This is another plan added to the failed plans of the last 50 years in Detroit. Using Einstein's definition of insanity, every government in Detroit must have been run by the insane, or liberals (same thing).

They probably only look at your gross income as well... not what is left after you already paid your 'fair share' in taxes.

I've seen a lot of cases where people making $50k a year seemed to live quite a bit better than people with $100k a year...

...until they extend the "ability to pay" principle to gasoline...that's how it works...

Having been born, raised and educated in "The D" in much better times, this is an inevitable outcome I predicted in 1973, after reading AS, the rest of AR, and lots of free market economics. (I claim no prescience or special skill in doing so. Reading Atlas and looking around me in Detroit back then was all it took.)

I left in 1976 to study Econ in grad school, but always kept an eye out on the sad deterioration of a once great American industrial city, and for the inevitable bankruptcy. I had the unfortunate opportunity to witness it closer up, having moved back to a nearby suburb in 2000.

I actually thought the water shutoff had begun a few months ago (I got out of Dodge again in 2012), but a similar hue and cry probably delayed it. Ah, I see the article actually mentions that.

But back to the issue: yeah, this "ability to pay" is a horrible, immoral idea. Not to be too cynical, but there were/are already a lot of public assistance programs that would have helped pay these water bills before they got out of hand, but they chose not to pay as they went, and, hand-in-hand, the politicians let them get away with it. Now it's time to pay up. And to be just a tad more cynical (realistic), I still visit once/month and I don't see any shortage of automobiles, cell phones, cable TV etc. in the city.

I hope the current mayor sticks to his guns. He seems much better than the long string of corrupt mayors (of all "persuasions") that have plagued the city since at least the 30's. The immediately prior mayor tried, but the real villain of the piece is the City Council. They are among the most socialist, race-mongering bunch of misfits that will rival any other Far Left city such as SF or LA. They fought the bankruptcy (which will eventually benefit the city) tooth-and-nail for years, primarily in league (surprise) with the public teacher's union. Fortunately, one result of the bankruptcy and state takeover has been reduced power for them.

Sorry for the rant, but when something bad happens to someone you know and love dearly, all due to politics and immorality, it makes one angry. I'm sure more than a few people here know what I mean.

And as far as the UN, MYOB, and don't dare comment further on my city.

God Forbid you have a decent income in the City of Detroit, your water might be more expensive than gasoline...

"Ability to pay"? Straight out of Marx. And the city will go down for good. Just shut down.

"Have you anything left to loot?" asked Henry Rearden. "What can save you now?"

"Oh, you'll do something!" shouted James Taggart.

And in so shouting, gave the game away.

I was going to say the same thing. The fact that they're considering scaling up/down the price of water based on one's ability to pay is a good way to further push down the tax base in a city creeping closer to a Socialist's paradise. I'd avoid Detroit too.

Don't see it..