Thank you for the thoughtful response ML. I drove across a major thoroughfare in Charlotte this afternoon where there was heavy construction underway (to build a public transit extension - sigh). The point where I crossed contained a large earth mover with the name of the manufacturing company on its side. It was Japanese: Himatsu or something like that. I got very depressed.

Hope it was clear that I was "cautiously" optimistic, and tried to give some evidence for being so. I certainly agree on the overall apathy on the part of voters nationwide. But the fact that the city with the largest percentage of blacks in the US (83%) could elect a white, seemingly true reform mayor says that something is happening, at least local to Detroit. I hope it's a trend, which have to start somewhere (there goes that optimist again).

As far as the "all powerful unions", not so much anymore. The UAW hasn't won an organizing battle in a new auto plant in a long time, and IMO the current population of Detroit could not and and did not grow up drinking the pro-union kool-aid of previous generations, if only because the auto plants had closed and moved out of the city long ago. Besides, my example a "big manufacturing" moving back soon is unrealistic, but I think it likely we'll see small and medium size firms starting up.

Also I did some checking on the current status of the UAW, as I knew there had been some big changes in the past few years, specifically a two-tier wage system. In order to survive at all in union plants, in 2007 they agreed that new union workers would start at around $15/hour vs. $28.hour for "veterans" (I actually think the latter figure is understated as I know true long-timers making much more per hour). Of course that type of system can't co-exist forever, and of course the unions, now that the economy is perceived to have improved, want to eliminate the lower tier, whereas the owners want to eliminate the upper. My money's on management.

The other fact I learned, which surprised me at first, and then didn't, is that less then half of UAW members now are actually auto workers.. The majority are now teachers, hospital workers etc., i.e., government sector workers, the only area where unionism isn't declining. And even that trend is being challenged by right-thinking leaders (see Scott Walker). I think unionism is dead in the private sector, and fighting it's last ditch battles only with the help of local, liberal governments.

Well, that went a little beyond paying for water, and even Detroit, I blame it on the coffee (not global warming)....

Ben, Many thanks to both you and MinorLiberator for your replies. I confess I am less optimistic than you folks, primarily because I see too much apathy among the electorate there and everywhere. When that auto mfg company ML mentioned opens shop in Detroit, reports a year's profit and keeps the all-powerful unions out, I will become as positive as you.

Thanks for you reply. Rule One - never trust the media. I live in Ann Arbor and know where to go and where not to go in "The D" just as I know where to go and where not to go in NOLA or NYC. There is some amazing architecture and history in Brush Park just north of Comerica Park and Ford Field. This will be the initial island of affluence when finished and will be big fun.

I agree Ben, I was closer to the situation before I moved from The D and settled down in Ontario, Detroit's Canadian neighbor, in 2012. But I saw signs of hope before I left, and I visit friends and family once/month and continue to see improvements.

Some of the things I see are investors buying up whole blocks of sound but neglected buildings downtown. When I was still there, my niece had her wedding downtown on the river, in a beautiful refurbished area east of the core. I took a walk around during the reception and there was a extraordinarily good-looking office building that, per a plaque outside, was a former brewery. The area was also packed with new and thriving music clubs.

Other things I see as very positive:

I never thought I would see this in my lifetime, but Michigan is now a "right-to-work" state. I was just reading about Volvo opening it's first U.S. plant in South Carolina. Also, no surprise there, a right-to-work state. There is going to be a huge push by the UAW to unionize it, but the odds seem to be, and I agree, that they will fail. Just think if an auto manufacturer, or other large manufacturer decided to locate in Detroit, and kept the unions out?

I have also seen and heard about a surge in "charter schools" in and around Detroit, which are alternatives to the public schools. My sister has been a teacher for 40 years, mostly in Catholic schools before they declined significantly, and she has taught at a few charter schools in Detroit. Along with the looters, there is and has always been a hard-core of moral, hard-working people in Detroit, and they are sending their kids to these schools. I believe I read of one high school where 98% of the kids are going to college. That's a rate that used to be reserved for the private, religious schools, and only the best of those.

I could go on if I had more time. I truly think that Detroit has reached the bottom, and that the lessons of the bankruptcy have been learned (mainly hostility to business), the union's power is significantly diminished, especially the teacher's. The people themselves want change: a white mayor? Seemingly smart and honest. That in itself is amazing to me and says "the times they are a-changin'"...

It's a start, and risky, and we can't forget the overall mess the country and all the civilized countries in the world are in, but maybe Detroit can continue to recover, and serve as an example.

Detroit is clawing its way out of the abyss of debt and is redefining itself. I teach at Wayne State University as a guest lecturer every January and each year see more abandoned homes cleared along Martin Luther King Blvd. Lots of vacant lots. Detroit is building a rail system along Woodward Avenue from the center of Detroit to the New Center north of I-94. This is intended to move people along the Woodward corridor to gain easy access to restaurants and entertainment venues. This coupled with Dan Glibert's efforts will attract people with money. The non-paying moochers will be crowded out. The non-payment of water bills was ignored by Kwame Kilpatrick (he is in jail) but now is the center of attention. Water treatment has been ignored for decades and with the decline in population (1.5 million to 750,000) water consumption and revenue are down. The business attraction will first be entertainment. Other businesses will follow in the decades to come. Detroit reached its bottom. Sure, its a risk investing in a dismal setting - but then the greater the risk the greater the reward.

Permission granted my friend and thank you.

Rich - BRILLIANTLY STATED!
[and thank you - a new saying to put on the calligraphy list, with your permission - a set of professionally-lettered signs stating wise and interesting statements for sale. There's going to be an ETSY store, too.} edited to some semblance of clarity

Ben, why on earth are businesses starting or relocating in Detroit? It seems fairly clear from reviewing the water situation alone that businesses are in disfavor and will be looted to the extent possible. Why are people beginning anew to risk their capital there?

When I said "this trend" I meant the trend of the poor not being segregated from the rich by nation or region and instead living in the same cities.

It's very important to have civil rights, economic freedoms, and democratic gov't. It makes everyone richer. It does NOT, however, cause the rich and poor to be separted. I actually think it brings them together.

Not sure.

Taiwan seems like a good example of emerging from a mess. They have decent civil rights, and pretty good economic freedoms. They took right off after WWII. Leveraging a hard working workforce and little socialism. I forgive their "martial law" until 1987. They either had to suppress China's communist influence, or be absorbed. Alignment with the US was an obvious choice.

I'm saying if we only traded with countries that had good civil rights records, this trend would presist.

I would agree that it is driven that way as long as we buy products from countries without civil rights, appropriate "involuntary" environmental rights, and other asymmetric economic competition. Union people buying goods at Walmart is the ultimate irony!

Not sure we can expect Detroit, or other, to be something other than a 3rd world country unless we 1) fund them out of existence with socialism, 2) exploit and leverage a 3rd world mess, or 3) let them all struggle as animals until they provide value equal to a relevant position in the contributor's world.

I wonder how many people in Detroit squat it abandoned houses they don't own, as many people around the world do who live in irregular shanties. I bet it's more than a few rare cases.

I think we're leaving the world of some countries being rich and others being poor. We have rich/poor people, but they're not segregated as much by nation state. This is IMHO the result of technology and not policy decisions. There's no way to keep some nations rich and others poor, and I don't see that we should want to. This is a tough adjustment for the world. I do not want the undeveloped world of irregular housing and illiteracy to exist down the road from me, but I don't have an answer to make it stop.

Agreed. +1.

Either way.... pay for what you use or get shut off... FAIR.

There are several cases in Detroit where companies have millions of unpaid water fees. I found out about this a while ago, so I can't remember any names, but I think there was a hotel and a golf course that were particularly bad offenders.

Huh?

Probably only end up turning water off to "uninhabited" crack/meth houses.

How close we are to Bombay (Mumbai)!

Maybe they could stop letting big companies skip water payments! Then we can talk about how lowering prices for the poor is "unfair"

None of it is THEIR money, they just have to pretend they're working for the public good and most are convinced ...especially if they think some rich bastards will get stuck having to legally pay for their "free" water... it's their RIGHT to have water.

Got their effing thieving fingers in everything.

Nicely put. And I fear you're right--the "experiment" with the greatest chance of success has the least chance of being enacted.