Great post, John.

Exactly.

Remember that in the valley at one point Dagny was willing to surrender her life if she and Galt could make love first. She struggled to keep from going to him, and he paced the floor all night. It was very clear how much they desired each other.

Very well said Zen. If Dagny didn't want John then and there she would never have walked into a deserted tunnel. There was no rape, only the fulfillment of an unsaid promise.

I hate that site

exactly. and Luke and Laura-jus sayin

Although the scene involving Roark and Dominique was very physical, I never saw it as rape. Rand made it very clear that Dominique desired Roarke with every fiber of her being and that she was fighting it the same way she fought accepting joy in her life otherwise, but that she was hoping that he would overpower her. Their coupling was a celebration of all that is good in life, and that's exactly what she was afraid of.

yes. I love you zen

Galt - no way.

Roark - that wasn't easy, but you have to think, would a rape victim sit and daydream about a rapist? Laugh about it? Go out of her way to be close to him? End up marrying him? No way. So no.

I saw a "cartoon" series including a flow chart which
showed that the successes of Rand's characters
concluded with rape -- don't know how to include
it here. . it's in a word doc on this computer. . maybe
you have seen it. -- j

p.s. found it -- http://www.cracked.com/funny-304-ayn-ran...
.

didn't Ayn see it as inevitable that strength would be
evident in the full range of the lives of her main
characters. . they were strong!!! -- j
.

I also read fountainhead first, and saw it as a strong
character merging life with another strong character.
then, in AS, it was like the inevitable joining of two
people who knew it was right. . they way that they
knew involves feminine signals and male intuition,
both rather murky areas. . imho. -- j
.

"Bridges" insinuated that the couple "just knew"
that they should be lovers, so they just followed
the knowledge. . the book, which I read before
seeing the movie, was heavy in the mystic sense
of just knowing . and it sure is beautiful country
up there in Iowa!!! -- j
.

well said, Zen;; I agree completely!!! -- j
.

No, he was just a strong man responding to a strong willed woman's desire. Remember, AR wrote before the world of PC and the 'Rules of Continuing Consent'. Back when women used all signals available to them and AR knew those as well and understood that some strong women want to see a man be a male.

I don't see Galt as a rapist at all. Roarke--I can see why some may think that of him, but I disagree there, too. To some extent, this reminds me of some of the conversations I was hearing when people first began to read "Shades of Grey" and then all over again when the movie came out. Maybe Rand had a thing for the non-traditional...

I just don't see any correlation between rape and the Galt/Dagny love scene.
There of course is the very physical scene between Dominique and Roark, some might argue was the "rape" of Dominique. I never saw it as such myself. Is it weird to be very physical in the sack? I don't think so. all part of what two consenting adults get up to, and Dagny and Galt were no different. It's been so long since I have seen Bridges of Madison County that I don't really remember the story well. I have been to all of those bridges though. My mother grew up nearby

I read Fountainhead first, so I'm biased. The Roark/Dominique relationship made it clear that Rand had a certain kink. It was toned down in AS, and I didn't notice it there.. I might have thought different if I had read AS first.

With Roark and Dominique, it kind of seemed like they had this unspoken agreement before the first encounter. They kept doing that thing staring each other down, and she tried to intimate him into averting his eyes when she glared at him like a peon. Maybe all that and the demeaning comments she made were a tacit invitation to what happened. It was very tacit, and I was confused at first. When she kept going on dates with him that ended with her demeaning him and goading him into going after her, it was clear at that point that this was just their kink, making me think the same unspoken kink had been going on from the beginning.