You may live openly as a parasite, but don't expect accolades from your neighbors.
It is better to carry a bum than to enslave him.
His being a bum reflects poorly on him, my choice to enslave him reflects poorly on me.

No goods are 'redistributed'.
The currently wealthy keep what they have.
The workers just pick up any tools left fallow to continue production.
IE,...
The shareholders of GM will not be working the factory, so the workers continue to do so.
The waltons will not be driving all those trucks, so the truck drivers continue to deliver the goods.
Disney's shareholders will not be using all those broadcast faculties so the workers supplying them labor and programming will continue to do so.
The bushes can keep their houses in Dubai, provided they can keep their heads.
In the absence of dollars I would suspect that the servant class would collapse and those that rely on servants to keep up their pyramid will find themselves lacking the human resources to continue at the pinnacle.

I agree that if one applies themselves they can do quite well under crapitalism, however they will never enter the hollowed halls of the illuminati families.
Any chance that your kid will join skull and bones?
Do you seriously think that your daughter can be president?
The hereditary families will never view you as an equal, they consider themselves a breed apart and see you as cattle on their farm.
Useless eaters is the quote.

Nothing is wrong with passing wealth to your progeny.
What is wrong is leveraging your wealth on the backs of the poor by paying a poor person the lowest wage you can to work in your mill while charging the highest price the market will bear and keeping the difference.
What is wrong with passing wealth in the crapitalist system is that it creates a situation where your progeny exist as parasites on the productive.

Starting your own business only changes you from exploited employee to exploiting boss.
If you make guitars and you neighbor can't make one and you deny him a guitar until he makes you supper then you have exploited that labor from him.
However, if you gift him a guitar shouldn't he feel indebted and reciprocate with what you want?
The change is from required to voluntary.
A good person doesn't expect something for nothing and acts accordingly, whereas an evil person demands payment up front because he expects the evil in his heart to be universally in all hearts.
Just as the thief's perception is that everybody steals, when clearly they don't.

Why should anyone pay more for your skill set/experience than the minimum they are worth to that person?
Why should we have to value our lives in a currency that ensures that wall street banksters never have to clean a toilet?
Did you miss the realization that prostitution, slavery, human trafficking, and drug pushing all come to an end in the absence of the profits motivating them?

Do you commonly look for the most expensive products in the grocery store, even if they are of lower quality than cheaper products?
No, I generally go with the lowest price goods despite them being of lower quality because my boss exploits me of 60% of the value that my labor creates.

'Energy, human time, land, and other means of production clearly are not limitless.'
Land is not limitless, I agree.
Energy is free for the taking, ask Tesla.
Absent the crapialists' need for greed we would have all the energy we need for free.
People are not in short supply.
Means of production are only limited by the number of workers to work them.

'"There are plenty of resources to provide food, clothing, and shelter to every human being and domesticated animal on the planet."
I agree.'
Wonderful, at least we don't have to debate this one.

'Does "working for a share of the work" mean you're only working for the cause of providing for the community, but not for providing for yourself?'
If we want consumer goods we have to create them. The division of labor is the most efficient means to that end.
Therefore, the farmer farms, the trucker trucks, the miner mines, the refiner refines, the driller drills and the bus boy busses, all on faith that everybody else is contributing a like amount and in return we order what we want from the net for delivery to our door.
What we create goes to the common pool and we draw from that pool what we need to continue producing.

'I agree with this except I don't call people keeping the stuff they make a system.'
You can call it what you want, but the reality is that the crapitalist system is what is enslaving you.
You will work to enrich wall street banksters or you can starve under bridge, slave.

'But I'm loath to steal.'
Expropriation of personal wealth is not required, we will expropriate any means of production that the 'owners' leave fallow, ie, the waltons will not be driving many of the trucks that currently bring goods to the shelves, leaving those trucks not actually driven by their 'owners' would be silly so we will put them to good use.
We will not exclude the current owners from our scheme, they can order stuff from the net, too.

'If so do we simply take wealth from the rich to even things out?'
We won't have to.
Can the factory 'owner' work the factory by himself?
Then the workers will work the factory and just stop taking orders from the boss.
He can still sit in the office and answer the phone, take orders, and whatever else makes him feel useful, he only loses his life and death hold over the workers.
Not to say that supervision will cease, just management's ability to starve the worker into submission.

'And once that money is in gov't coffers,'
Gov't as you know it will cease, no longer will them most willing to use violence drag us by our hair.
Rule by force will end.

'What if people don't do what you consider their civic duty, i.e. work.'
Rousseau's invisible hand will see to that.
People will work because it is the right thing to do, those that don't work will take the place in society currently held by those people with signs at the intersections.

'Suppose middle class people decide to spend more precious time with their families'
I hope that they do. Crunch the numbers, my proposal leaves far more time for leisure than crapitalism.

'An engineer decides to tinker with ham radio circuits for fun instead of working on a project to make the first smartphones.'
Here is the invisible hand again, if nobody steps up to invent the next personal computer then there won't be one, but I doubt this as a likely outcome.
Imagine r and d limited only by the intelligence of the researcher and not the economics of crapitalism.

Does the gov't go to those people and threaten them with some penalties for not working?
NO. Rule by force ends.
NOBODY will be forced to do anything, though their neighbors may not wish to associate with them.

of my kid needing surgery, but there's a shortage
Do you want a surgeon motivated by greed or a surgeon motivated by an irresistible urge to help?
Which one do you get under crapitalism?
Healthcare will be performed only by those willing to do it and by none of them that only want the easy work for high pay.

A customer asking me to stay late to get a circuit working before a trade show is rude and imposing if all I'm just working for my share of work.
There won't be any trade shows, and the attitude will change from hurry hurry, to manana.
This was one of the things I learned in mexico, why kill ourselves to make the jefe rich when we can just do it tomorrow?

you have to give them something.
I am giving them access to luxury, something crapitalism must deny them.

but money is easier b/c you don't have to have on hand exactly what the party happens to want at that moment.
Whatever you want can be ordered from the net, perhaps you have to wait on delivery, but what's your hurry?

I propose a paradigm shift, take the time to imagine a world not limited to the crumbs that drop from the shareholder's table but a world where you can have whatever you want for the asking.

You obviously believe that the world and society owes you the means of life just because you exist.

You obviously didn't read the proposal.
And yes, the society owes me more than a boot on my face for eternity.

The proposal is that the workers continue to work but instead of rewarding the banksters and shareholders they just order what they want from the net.
We have to have workers, we don't have to have dollars.

You were born into this world with a brain. I might suggest that you start using it.
Sweet jesus,.....
I used my brain to devise a system that doesn't hinge on slavery to continue.
Currently we live on the backs of Chinese slaves, but that is coming to an end.
At one time we used our own poor, but now the poor of the third world have to suffice because our own slaves wanted too much in rent.
'We used to own our slaves, now we just rent them.' Edward R Murrow

Oops I forgot that you don't own a plow and since you don't want to work for money you don't have anything to use to get someone else's or get someone else to build you one and if you did you can't get someone to deliver the metal for it or to smelt and cast the metal or to find and dig the ore out of the ground or to build or design the machinery needed to do all of that.
What part of 'continue to work' did you miss?
We don't have to have dollars, we do have to have workers.
It is your ignorance of what you have read that is showing.
Not once have I asked something for nothing and continuously have said that we have to have workers.

the land you think you ought to be able to plow and plant belongs to someone else
By that you mean that you will kill me to keep me off the land?
Your system lives on it's thugs' ability to keep the slaves in line, perhaps you should reevaluate your position.

I am neither young nor a fool, I have just looked outside my slave mentality to see that there is a world outside what the masters have determined.
Haven't you read Anthem?
Or do you just ignore that so you can feel powerful in denigrating your intellectual superiors?

Look outside the matrix created for you by those that would keep you on the farm.

Ok, then I can come to your house for supper and a bed?

Oh, you are going to force me to join the market if I want a bed and supper.

Crapitalism is founded on force, if everything was free for the asking nobody would pay the shareholders anything, but they will work because they want the goods that the division of labor provides.

Right, but in the paradigm shift I propose we work because we love working, and not because we have to do it to eat.

If you had something that needed fixing you would take it to the local guy fixing things.
No need to barter, everything is free for the asking.
Once consumption is viewed in the context of the amount of work involved recycling takes on a whole new perspective.
Do you want to consume a new car, or is a working old one just as good to get you from here to there?
Do you want to be on the hook for all the hours in producing a car or would you rather just check one out from the motor pool when you need one?

What I propose is a paradigm shift and requires a new perspective, the old one doesn't suffice.

I get that number by multiplying 20 hours a week for 50 weeks a year for the years between 20 and 45.
This is the number put forth by Kroptokin in The Conquest of Bread, I can't say for sure that the numbers still suffice to balance out consumption.

Well, then you should enjoy my proposal, I propose that we work around 20,000 hours in productive labor to retire to luxury rather than crapitalism's requirement of 100,000+ hours of toil for retirement to the poverty of social security.

Capitalism is equality. Capitalism is freedom. Entreat me, explain how capitalism and freedom are oxymoron's please.

How, exactly, am I the equal of the shareholder?
I do all the work and he gets all the profits that my production creates minus the wage he has to give to keep me from starving or deserting.

How is choosing between exploitation, wage slavery, and starving homelessness freedom?
If I could have a home and supper without submitting to wage slavery then you could say I was free, and a parasite if I didn't find something productive to do.

If someone is a dictator than they aren't practicing capitalism.
I missed that the first time,....if the boss isn't an ultimate dictator who is?
He dictates what you do, when you do it, and what you wear while doing it all under the penalty of starvation and homelessness.
Clearly your view of crapitalism is far too rosy.

I don't fit into religions too well, if there was a god(in the common definition) he would have to be destroyed as being inimical to human liberty.
I do have a religion that incorporates and ultimate good and ultimate evil, but it is the people in between that cause all the actions and not the 'god' or 'satan'.

Who is advocating for you making my choices, I am advocating the end of the system that rewards banksters to the detriment of the producers.

How much less would you have to work if you didn't work for $10 an hour while paying the plumber $50?
Wouldn't it be better if you worked and didn't pay the plumber anything else?

I've read it, and it was.
I think that Looking Backwards will go a long ways towards opening your eyes, as would reading some Emma Goldman.

Do you advocate the elimination of those not marketable?
- Nope. I insist on people doing for themselves as I do. Problem?
So how do you account for those too ill or old to produce?

Crapitalism is the closest to nirvana that those with crapital can get, it is a nightmare of forced slavery if your dad drank up all his money and left you with nothing.
- No one is entitled to anything from anyone - including parents. Do for yourself with the hand life has dealt you. There is always a way. I've never taken unemployment or welfare. I've created jobs and now create novels. Problem?
I'm with you, if one submits to the exploitation one can make himself quite comfortable.


Do you like living in a world where children have a market price and are marketable products?

- do you mean like welfare recipients getting more money for sh*tting out another child? Last I checked I've never bought or sold a child or anyone. Please elaborate.
I'm referring to human trafficking, as long as dollars and crapitalism exist people will be viewed as commodities and children will be bought and sold.
My proposal eliminates that, crapitalism perpetuates it.

Where the only choice is to submit to enriching somebody else already richer than you with the value that your work creates or starving?

- Jobs pay wages. Skills provide the ability to get jobs. Logic = obtain skills/develop and get job.
So, yes, submit to the exploitation and stop crying,...

You cannot mandate charity (taxes) and have it be charity - this is not freedom its theft.
I don't advocate charity, I end it. No longer will the shareholder live on the charity created by the difference between wages and profits.

Right, it's safer being a well fed slave than to strike out on a new path of freedom.
Not everybody is ready to be free.

Don't you see that one valuing humans on their market value dehumanizes us?
Yes, the bus boy has as much claim on the lear jet as anybody else.
Working entitles you to one share of the work.
However, what would a bus boy do with a lear jet sitting in a hanger and not getting used much?
Why wouldn't he just go to the airport and get on one when he needed to go somewhere?
Isn't having something and not using it wasting the time of the workers that created it?
Under my proposal doing so would be recognized as needless consumption.
Why have a car when you can call to get a ride?
Why store a boat for months when you can get one from the pool of boats when you need it?
I am suggesting a paradigm change and you are trying to force the viewpoint of the current system on it.

I agree, somebody is going to have to work at the shoe factory if we want shoes.
The current number in use is 20,000 hours, but I don't have access to the data needed to be certain that that number creates enough goods to balance out a lifetime of consumption for sure.
Regardless it beats the 100,000+ hours required by crapitalism for a retirement to poverty.
Once those hours are met then you can weed your neighbors garden all you want, or you can continue your research into advanced physics, whatever floats your boat.

Or we can dispense with the accounting system that creates this possibility and just order what we want from the net while working a productive job.
The worker doesn't care if the shareholders get their cut, as long as he puts goods on the shelves the shareholders can take a rocket to the moon and the shelves are still full.
Under my proposal he can have luxury goods for the asking.

Ok, but if we coop the structure that is Costco to our purposes we wont need to startup new businesses.
As long as the people that work today work tomorrow we can just stop paying at the pump and everything is free.
Naturally those workers are going to want help, and it is up to those without productive labor to find some.
Only instead of accounting for it in a system that rewards the parasites the most we just order what we need from the net to be delivered to our door.

Yes, I have read Rand. She was a weigh point on my road to anarcho-communism.
I am in the gulch because I think that most of the people here are just one step from the final truth, ie, wage slavery is still slavery.
Exploiting people by paying a wage less than what is created by their labor and living from that excess is parasitical on that worker.
The boss is exploiting the worker's poverty.