How many of these people are out there??? If even 20% voted two or three times, Obama would not have been elected!!!

As I read your response I was thinking about how few of the big wigs there were. Glad you addressed it. Yes of course you are right. Once you get above O5 I think it turns political. Even though it turns political much earlier in the enlisted ranks but that is to get promoted. "Down Periscope" is really not that far off!!!

I was just remembering the way we started as a
nation. . "in my heart" I want to eliminate non-producers
from the vote. . since I am retired, living on the momentum
of a life past, I would hope that I would still deserve
that category. . the problem is that those who are
living on the dole are taking charge of choices
which are important. -- j
.

This issue would be moot in Atlantis. Selective admission means everyone has the franchise, else they should not be there in the first place.

It has. I was hoping for more response from the viewpoint of a 'founder' of Atlantis, but I am surprised at what appears to be an overwhelming agreement that some sort of change to qualify suffrage is desirable.

So many of our freedoms are being lost for a little traditional convenience.
If the border was being crossed illegally at the same rate that it was in the 50s there would be much less need for positive ID at the polls.

Any comments on how voting qualification should be done in the real Gulch, Atlantis? The original topic can be applied in that scenario, too. Many comments I see here are about minor changes to the existing voting system (however unlikely), but what would you do if you were a 'founder' of Atlantis?

There could be more than one class of 'property' to qualify you. I wouldn't limit to land or so-called 'real property', as that would only distort the market. I would think it wise to encourage other investments, for example, local small businesses with some specification on acceptable line of biz.
(I would also repeal income taxes and all the distortions that creates, e.g., deductions for mortgage interest that benefits banking and land development at the expense of more productive investment.)

Nothing wrong with dreaming.

And it has been an interesting discussion.

In my state our legislature made voter ID mandatory.......
The uproar over it was deafening at the next election.
Every time someone got all twisted up over it at the polls, my grin got wider.

I think you are all dreamers. You will never get those restrictions passed. Instead we should demand that the election laws we have be enforced. Make voter ID mandatory. To vote you must be a US citizen and have proof of residence. You can only vote in your place of residence and would require voter registration.

Stop the fraud. It should be harder to vote than get on an airplane not the other way around.

Not being as familiar with the military as you are, I will happily welcome your judgement call on the matter.

And it isn't to say that there aren't those even in upper leadership roles that couldn't be trusted to vote conscientiously. I was good friends with an Air Force Colonel (now retired) who served in Afghanistan for a time and opened my eyes into that region of the world. He was a straight-up fellow and I'd trust him to do the right thing every time. We were good friends (still are) with several of their children and used to come to parties and such at their home.

Disagree.

That kicks out everyone that chooses to rent rather than own property. When my wife and I sell our current home and move south, its a crap shoot at this point on whether we rent or buy when we do. Depends on what we find on the market and upkeep.

I understand where you are coming from on that. We will have to agree to disagree on how much conflict of interest is involved. That said however....

If you were to firebreak it, I would make it at the O-7 level. That is the point at which their promotions are consented to by the Senate. Any promotions beyond O-6 have a political component.

I really like that idea.

Agree, blarman, regarding conflict of interest and political role of the higher ranking officers. Next question I would ask is how much they could affect the votes of the men and women at lower ranks. I suspect the answer is they could greatly affect the votes of their subordinates.

There's a real easy fix for that - make all ballots write-in ballots! If you can't name the candidate, you can't vote for them!

Don't get me wrong. I lived in military communities and had good friends in the military (though not military myself) and I respect those men and women tremendously. My concern is the principle of conflict of interest. While one doesn't "recuse" themselves from voting, I am concerned that those at the higher levels of military (generals, etc.) become more political figures than military ones. They are responsible for evaluating new weapons and systems and laying budgets before Congress, etc., and their positions rely heavily on support from elected officials. So while I have no problems allowing everyone from say a major down to vote, above that I start to get leery. Now perhaps one would make the argument that they are so few in number that their individual votes won't sway things one way or the other and they might be right. To me, it's the principle of the matter: if there is a potential conflict of interest, they should refrain.

what about the original u.s. situation -- except that
women must be included::: land ownership. . this is
definite skin in the game -- part of the "skin" of the
country itself. -- j
.

You were good until the 3rd paragraph. The military are employees of the government. I know, you covered it in the first paragraph.

The one I think you missed is they must first take a short test; Who is running for President and VP on both sides? Who are the present majority and minority leaders of both the House and Senate?

Here is my Reason:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg...

I like it now let's also add those brought up "blarman" and we would have a great first step!

How bout this;
Currently enlisted? -1 point
Previously enlisted? +1 point
War Veteran? +1 point

Speak English? 0 points
No English? -5 points

Non citizen? Don't even think about it.

Thanks. This is new to me. I'm sure there's plenty more like her who aren't caught.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX6E2Ucv...

If I recall one member of parliament in Oz ran under the Motoring Enthusiast Party. He got few votes but because of the system idiocyncracies he was won and through his support to a minor party that if joined with the opposition on some issues could block passage of pet projects of the majority party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_...

In other wrds, take a test in order to qualify as a voter. Good idea! I think it should be similar to the test given to those applying for citizenship. Let's take it a step further and have all those elected to congress and the executive branch take the test before they take office. If nothing else, we'll know that they at the very least know the principles upon which the country was founded. It might even be a good idea to have them pass an oral test as well.

A surprising number of issues with Presidential and Congressional voting come from the fact that the system is rigged against new minority-party candidates.

The thinking goes like this: "Wow, Betty Smith makes a lot of sense, I'd love to vote for her. But she's not polling well, and if I vote for her, that's one less vote for Party X. Party X and Party Y are neck and neck, every vote makes a difference. I hate them both, but Party X is the lesser evil. Therefore I'll vote for Party X.

Meanwhile, everyone else thinks that way, so Betty Smith's votes count to almost zero.

There are countries such as Germany, New Zealand and Australia (Senate only), where votes are never wasted. In these countries, Betty Smith types will win Parliamentary seats, will have a voice, and will have the casting vote on critical issues. These countries have an electoral ecosystem which allows smaller parties to grow and thrive. In some cases, new smaller parties have grown to become the majority party.