Since this is a site dedicated to the thinking of Ayn Rand; here is what she had to say about patriotism from the Ayn Rand Lexicon;"ISOLATIONISM is the attitude of a person who is interested only in his own country and is not concerned with the rest of the world. The real meaning was: Patriotism and national self interest."
For the complete explanation I suggest you look it up in the Lexicon.
A final thought, can you today come up with a definition of patriotism that would be true for all of the citizens of the country?

Patriotism need not proceed from any blind faith. It can have its basis in a quite reasonable evaluation of one's country as supportive of a code that has a proper standard of value.

Yeah, I remember when that song came out. I remember hearing it at every airshow I attended. That song really made sense to me then. Now, well...we're not hearing it at airshows. And, I'd feel pretty conflicted upon hearing it now. I think about my grandfather and his generation - how they fought so courageously in the Pacific in WWII. I love and respect what they did. Then, I turn east, look at our nation and wince.

Well said.

My first skim through the post, but I agree with the way you've put it. Blind faith, no. But partiotism as the conscious respect for the original ideals of America, in spite of its current state and errors in the past, I see, as I noticed in another post, a virtue.

I am quite willing to be patriotic if my government is anywhere near Objectivist, because in that case, both will be aligned with my self-interest. When my government has been adversarial to my self-interest since at least the Reagan years, I cease being patriotic. Back when Lee Greenwood recorded "I'm Proud to be an American", I was proud to be an American... but no longer. Mrs. Obama and I have both done 180's. Now I am no longer proud of my country.

I have recently been studying the founders as individuals and as elected representatives to a congress. It strikes me that they walked the razors edge between their own best interest and the interests of the "collective" states or colonies. Say what you will, but these men and their ladies truly understood the long term significance of what they were doing. By the way, much of what I have learned is that the women who stedfastly encouraged and supported their menfolks had a major impact on the outcome. I think you can act both in your interest and in the interest of the principles of the DOI and the Constitution (Patriotism) if and only if you BELIEVE in those principles.

patriotism

noun pa•tri•ot•ism \ˈpā-trē-ə-ˌti-zəm, chiefly British ˈpa-\
: love that people feel for their country : love for or devotion to one's country

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...

I find the dictionary definition is vague and wanting.

True Patriotism should be reserved for the founding ideals of the nation if good and to the people that share those values. Not to the politicians or form our government takes at any given time. Devotion to the ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and other Patriots that uphold these ideals are those deserving of the title Patriot. Our founding was respectful of the individual rights, not the collective. As Mr. Cohen has articulated in the presentation khalling provided a link to, the common good is what is good for each individual. It is not something that is good for some and not for others. Redistribution, for example, is good for the recipients, but not so for those taken from. Patriotism is devotion to an ideal that protects and fosters the true common good in this context and protects the rights and liberty of the individual. Patriotism is devotion to the ideal not the present circumstance. It is doing what one can to preserve and promote that ideal.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

Iroseland's comment reminded me of something. I'm a descendant of Ethan Allen. In getting familiar with his life I was really moved by the obvious position he took of being true to his ideas, but being a rebel to the establishment. At that time it was the British, and he really drove them nuts. He just refused to comply. I, for better or worse, feel more apt to "go Galt". This is something I've been addressing lately...

In the video I link to in my previous comment, separating out the blind patriotism of allegiance to a flag or country and patriotism as acting for the liberty and preserving freedom and working towards a Constitutional framework in line with one's moral values is a big distinction. Whether or not one would agree with Mr. Cohen's assertion that patriotism is a virtue, he makes a case. Do we owe it to ourselves to do everything possible to get those freedoms back? and are all those flag saluting, Allegiance saying patriots the same? Most dictators encourage patriotism to their country after all. food for thought I guess

I think the first thing to do would be to define what the word means. It could mean that you love your country because you fell that you are supposed to. Or you just blindly accept that it must be great because someone said so. I would suggest that this is not really patriotism. Its state as religion. Now lets compare that to some other folks who pretty much everyone considers to be great patriots. The founding fathers. At the time their paradoxically was no country ( yet ). Sure their were states, but even they had been occupied by the British since day one. Yet, they were still patriots.. Not for a place, or even a people ( even then the 13 colonies were already more melting pot that just about anywhere in Europe. ).. They were patriots for ideas. When it came down to it they were fighting for self ownership and everything that goes with it.

I do not see "country" in terms of geographic boundaries but as an idea.I have a very strong allegiance to the "idea of America" which I disassociate with the government in it's present state. I start with believing that personal freedom is the ultimate value. Prior to our founding fathers, freedom was pretty much an abstract concept. It was much discussed but no one could see how to make it work and those in power did not want it to and actively fought it.

What the founding fathers did was light years ahead of anything done before but even they knew that they had not, or could not perfect the concept. They believed that they were pretty bright fellows but thought that future generations would have the intelligence to improve on their ideas and hoped they would do so. They also warned us about letting factions form that would pervert or paralyze our system.

I am patriotic (loyal) to the idea and would die for it but loathe the mess that we have made. As an objectivist, I do not think of patriotism being an opposite as long as it is not just blind faith.

Patriotism is one of the more dissonant subjects we have here in the Gulch. Here is an Atlas Society Summit talk by Alexander Cohen where he makes an argument for patriotism as a Virtue. I expect we can get a lively discussion going. Thanks for the interesting post, Abaco.
http://www.atlassociety.org/as/john-galt...