13

The Jade Helm Hysteria

Posted by xthinker88 10 years, 7 months ago to News
53 comments | Share | Flag

This Jade Helm nonsense is paranoid hysteria. It would be hysterical if it weren’t so sad. I’ve posted the above article because I find it fairly well reasoned and reasonable – from an otherwise conspiracy site.
1. The military has always done large scale exercises in the U.S. Pre-WW2 there were famous maneuvers in Louisiana involving combined arms including armored forces. Was Patton practicing to invade the US? No, he was practicing to fight in Europe. It’s just that the Europeans would have objected vehemently to using their land as training ground.
2. Where else would they do them? And some of the primary missions of SOCOM are counter insurgency, insurgency, and direct action. The last two involve a high percentage of scenarios where personnel might find themselves stranded in hostile territory. So where should they train?
3. They have ongoing training exercises involving their insurgency mission as well. For decades they've run op Robin sage (I think it's called) in NC where the SF teams actually train locals to be guerrillas. Unlike in TX, where whackos seem to be coming out of the woodwork, the people in the Robin Sage AO actually enjoy participating in the exercise and some are “regulars”. Either playing the role of guerrilla trainees, informants, or noncombatants. Does this operation mean the US military is planning to conduct guerrilla warfare in the US?
4. I personally participated in a large exercise involving most of the east coast, divided into multiple hostile and friendly areas. For me, as a lowly LT, it ultimately involved spending a few uncomfortable nights in the swamps of Camp Lejeune kicking the USMC opfor’s butt (at least that’s how I remember it and I’m sticking to it.  )
5. That brings me to one of the missions revealed in the map – the JOAX. Forced entry and seizure of a hostile airfield is one of the primary missions of the 82nd Airborne Division along with the 75th Ranger Regiment. It is regularly practiced as it would form the basis of entry into a hostile or less than friendly environment. It looks like a JOAX is explicitly located on this map. It looks to me like that black box that shows the area for it includes Lackland AFB and/or Randolph AFB. That’s what they do folks – they parachute in a “seize” an airfield – usually on an existing AFB or Army base. That’s called training.
6. When you are training to run operations over a wide geographical area (like Afghanistan, or the Middle East), at some point you need to practice running operations over a wide geographical area. I imagine that, for example, they will station the command elements in the blue areas on the map but need to run the operations in the red areas. There is no substitute for actual geographical distance when that is what you are training for. I suspect that a lot of this will be a “paper” exercise. Although those are now done through computer simulations. So, for example, there may be some operations (like the JOAX), or maybe a hostage rescue (the CRF event) that are carried out by actual forces against other active duty forces playing OPFOR. But there might also be a lot of simulated operations also being performed (airstrikes, other raids and conventional force deployments) that are only done on the computer. The goal of positioning command elements in remote places is to make the simulations appear as real as possible inside their operations centers.
7. I'm skeptical of the conspiracy folks for another huge reason. While I have argued on this site that rank and file soldiers and marines would be more than willing to follow order and fire on Americans depending on how those Americans are being portrayed, I do not think the same of special operations types. Of all the military, if it came to a crack down on us, I think special forces types would likely side with the patriots against the government. They are all smart and trained to operate independently. In addition, I know a bunch of Specops folks. I don’t know any that have any respect for Obama. Those on active duty cannot express it – but that doesn’t mean they are just going to follow orders and conduct a military takeover on his behalf either. Not just follow orders. It would be the everyday soldiers and marines that would follow orders and fire on Americans.
8. I have yet to see one conspiracy theorist that has proposed one plausible or even semi-realistic scenario as to how these troops could accomplish the alleged objectives of a military takeover. In addition, there aren't enough Specops types out there to conquer Texas. Especially when some significant number of them would go over to the side of the Texans.
9. A minor point but the fact that they put the 15 on the end of Jade Helm indicates to me that they've done jade helm exercises in previous years.
Alex Jones is the white Al Sharpton. And this is his Tawana Brawley. This gulch is dedicated to reason. Keep your wits about you folks and don’t give in to the hysteria. There are enough real threats to our liberty out there.


All Comments

  • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But the reasoning of these conspiracy buffs can? YOu are the ones claiming there are little green men and offering no proof.

    1 - go read a history. Actually talk to somebody in the military.. Even join up. Evidence - let's see. I was an infantry officer in the Army. I did exercises like these. I've got hundreds of classmates from West Point that did exercises like this. Including several who are eitehr still in specops or are retired colonels in the green berets who have done exercises almost exactly like this one.

    There is no need to know crap. You are the one making outrageous claims. The burden of proof is on you. Not me.

    2. Are you really such an idiot? Posse Comitatus doesn't say what you think it says. Have you read it? Studied? Applied it? I have but I don't think you actually understand it. Because your statement has nothing to do with posse comitatus.

    3. You are the only dumb ass. Robin Sage is well understood and talked about all the time. It's part of the basic Army special forces course. Do a little research for a change. And go to sources more credible than the national inquirer.

    But you - with your massive experience - don't know about it - therefore it must not be. Really? And you are on a site dedicated to reason? Find another gulch.

    3 - 6: Doesn't matter? ONe of the keystones of the conspiracy is the MAP. The map shows that there is a JOAX. I'm explaining what that is and why it's no big deal. And also why it looks like it's probably going to happen at Fort Hood based on the MAP.

    Once again - you are the one making the outrageous claims. YOU have the burden of proof. And you have zero evidence. And you have no logic on your side. And you lack even a rudimentary knowledge and understanding of the military and military training.

    7. - This is a special forces training exercise. Yes, it would seem to matter if they are involved. And the fact that rank and file would fire on Americans is irrelevant. They aren't even taking part in Jade Helm.

    And Special Forces isn't taught the same things. That's why they are "special".

    "If this is the quality of the people on this site, I need to look elsewhere." - PLEASE DO. GO HANG OUT IN A BUNKER WITH ALEX JONES. Because you don't know a damn thing about what you are talking about. And if you buy into this bullshit, then you are not demonstrating the level of reasoning skills that ought to be found in somebody in a gulch dedicated to Ayn Rand's work.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ nickursis 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Uh, yea. I understand that our upstanding National Public Radio, to whom truth is as much a virtue as the breath of life itself, found a golden calf to parade around and say "look at this stupid dolt". And of course he may be buying into paranoid ideas. The point is: Our political system is designed to manufacture and enlarge such things with the :real" crap they pull. I am not to adverse to the theory that it is intentionally done, and that such exercises are specifically setup and then manipulated to allow certain "sources" to make "statements" indicating that martial law will be imposed tomorrow. Is this guy being played with? Most probably, along with a few hundred thousand others who no longer can separate fact from fiction. That makes it a hell of a lot easier to get away with the facts "they" want. I posted an article with a "unnamed State Trooper who saw trains with handcuffs". Does such a person exist? It doesn't matter as lonfg as that message gets out.. or it may be true..or may not..maybe. That is our current political system: It wants people confused and scared and paranoid, they are much easier to manipulate that way. It's called PsyOps.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You do understand that that article is completely making fun of the governor of Texas for buying into those paranoid ideas right? It cited the parts of the conspiracy to make fun of the idea. It's not "reporting" that those elements are true.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Zero 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I suspect the bulk of us just ignore these forays into the intellectual hinterlands. I know I do.

    No argument satisfies a conspiracy theorist. It's a neurosis, really.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The alternative seems to be, to accept uncritically the assurances of a government that demonstrably *does not* follow either the Constitution or the precepts of Objectivism. Do you not remember that our fellow "citizens" effectively elected Mister Thompson as their President, not once but twice? I would say anything this government does is suspect without independent corroboration of its innocence.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by jpalm 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why don't you try Conspiracy FACT. Tired of unthinking DAs. If the Facts are there...there is no CONSPIRACY...IT IS FACT.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by jpalm 10 years, 7 months ago
    Answers:

    1. The military has always done large scale exercises in the U.S. Pre-WW2 there were famous maneuvers in Louisiana involving combined arms including armored forces. Was Patton practicing to invade the US? No, he was practicing to fight in Europe. It’s just that the Europeans would have objected vehemently to using their land as training ground.
    #1 - The Constitution only allows a standing Army for 2 years.

    #2 - Really, what evidence do you have of that statement? Furthermore, if the exercises are not aimed at the American People, then who is the US's next target for invasion? And don't give me this BS "need to know" crap. Everyone needs to know regardless of the BS "National Security" excuses.

    2. Where else would they do them? And some of the primary missions of SOCOM are counter insurgency, insurgency, and direct action. The last two involve a high percentage of scenarios where personnel might find themselves stranded in hostile territory. So where should they train?

    Answer: Well # 1...have they not had enough training in Iraq and Afganistan over the past 10+ years? Duh! Otherwise, do it on Post. Ever heard of Posse Comitatus? NO MILITARY ON OUR STREETS PERIOD. NO EXCUSE!
    3. They have ongoing training exercises involving their insurgency mission as well. For decades they've run op Robin sage (I think it's called) in NC where the SF teams actually train locals to be guerrillas. Unlike in TX, where whackos seem to be coming out of the woodwork, the people in the Robin Sage AO actually enjoy participating in the exercise and some are “regulars”. Either playing the role of guerrilla trainees, informants, or noncombatants. Does this operation mean the US military is planning to conduct guerrilla warfare in the US?

    Answer: Oh really? You and the media know all about this? I've never heard of this and if you Dumb Asses in NC did not stop it you are guilty of treason for not protecting yourselves and your own people from military occupation. Why don't you talk about the Boston Martial Law that was a test in and of itself and the Dumbasses welcomed it not really understanding what was going on.

    #3 thru #6 is BS

    #7 - this is where the real rubber hits the road. You admit that the rank and file "would be more than willing to follow order and fire on Americans". It doesn't matter if Special Forces are involved. They're being taught the same thing. We learned that with the MIAC report a few years ago.

    The rest of your post doesn't matter. Your "reasoning" cannot be substantiated at all.

    If this is the quality of the people on this site, I need to look elsewhere.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ nickursis 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Certainly the military wants, and needs, to train. Your point on the IRS is spot on. Since our government has broken us up into the little bucket brigades ( everyone has their little buckets, gay, straight, Christian, Liberal, Conservative) they can play them off to each other and do what they want.The fact that Lerner got off with everything, retirement, bonus, no charges, just shows that the system cannot be trusted to police itself. They manage our social structure by appealing to the "bucket of the moment". For a while it was LGBT, then it became race, who knows what the next bucket group will be. As long as we have politicians who think THEY know what is good for US, and we will damn well like it, there is every reason to question motives and actions. They have lost their moral authority.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ nickursis 10 years, 7 months ago
    Xthinker88, then this article will bolster your theory, and they are considered quite reputable:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/...

    While it is easy to throw the "paranoid right winger" label, remember that over the last 100 years or so the Federal government has been moving into a position of total authority. The states now practically have to beg to get royal permission to do almost anything, because they have rules, laws, regulations, Executive Orders etc that have basically neutered everyone's rights. When you have an Executive Branch that has repeatedly abused its powers (look at how many Executive Orders have been issued, and I have no idea if there is anyplace you can find out for a fact) politicians who have consistently lied to get what THEY want (and YOU have to take, like ObamaCare), it is no wonder that people are going to question the slightest hint of something amiss and look under the rug, behind the TV for the bugs. Polticians have established a whole new norm for themselves, and responsibility to their constituents is NOT in it. MHO.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by straightlinelogic 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Read what I said. Military training doesn't distress me, the reasons the military has been used, and what is contemplated in the future, does.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I do not think it is that commonplace. And it bothers me that so many in the gulch seem ready to buy into any conspiracy theory, regardless of how far fetched.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's all ok. Calm down. Because the aliens are really in charge. The grays will make it all better.

    That, btw, is the quality of the site you linked to. About a notch lower than infowars which is already out there in lala land.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You obviously have very little understanding of the military if you think that obama's position as commander in chief gives him the means to do a military takeover. I am frankly becoming appalled at what passes for reason in the gulch.

    Btw, you do realize that the reason they put the year on the exercise is to distinguish it from all the other years they have run the exercise?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly. These exercises have previously been run elsewhere. Just the military training to better do its missions. The military trains in every terrain available in the US because it has potential missions in all sorts of terrain worldwide.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Really? What is his name and badge number? And surely he took oictures and gathered other evidence right?

    I am somewhat flabbergasted that people in this gulch seem to buy into all of this hysteria. People allegedlydefending reason will buy into just about anything. Regardless of its inherent unreasonability , lack of evidence, and suspect reporting sources.

    Next thing you know there will be a massive conversion of objectivists to scientology.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 7 months ago
    I agree that SF types would more than likely side with citizens. For one thing they understand their oath of office to the old Constitution the one taken by every member of the military. For another they see the results of building up a new protective echelon both in their training and in real life.

    I recall war gaming similar situations back in the last century.I often wandered why the best trained were left out of the solution to 911. I now believe it was because they weren't seen as part of the solution to those who didn't let a good crisis go to waste.

    My best guess is another huge crisis. I see in http://military.com the Generals are asking for more firepower in Europe due to recent actions out of Russia. i also see the shooters are losing their back up with different physical fitness requirements for the support units back in the rear somewhere.

    Not looking good.

    However they aren't ATF and not prone to shoot up a bunch of women and kids or college students. After all the oath is to the Constitution not to those who ignore it.

    I worry more about those caught in the middle - part of the protective echelon but still loyal to the Constitution.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 7 months ago
    Q: How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
    A: Practice, practice, practice.
    That's how you get good at anything. Even military tactics. Every possible scenario, utilizing every combination of armament and troops. Anything else would be negligence. Any act, without irrefutable facts to back it up, can have any motive attached to it. The point is (Straightline) no matter what the operation is, it's better to be good at it in order to avoid fiascos. If, however, you are including the politicians who control the military, then the possibilities shift into the question of ; at what point does the military cease to obey orders if told to perform against their fellow citizens? In my time, (50s) there's no question they wouldn't obey, or for that matter, even be asked. I don't know about today's forces, but I'll bet on them doing the right thing.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by kevinw 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The absence of a little bit of good PR work that would quell a lot of the hype and suspicion and strengthen relations between the military and US citizens makes that all the more plausible.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ KSilver3 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    While I agree that a lot of this is paranoia, it is sad that our government has over reached to the point that this type of paranoia is commonplace.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I receive a ton of conservative email and I've been reading some of that Chicken Little squawking about sacking Texas and so forth.
    One thing about the diverse geography of the USA, we have training terrain for about any place the military could later engage an enemy.
    To train in the Southwest to fight in the Middle East is almost a no-brainer.
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo