Ben Shapiro, in his short book "How to Debate Leftists and Destroy them" says
"The proper response to a charge that you beat your wife is NOT to explain that you don't...it's to point out that throwing around accusations without evidence makes your opponent a piece of garbage.
In the discussion, he calls this "framing your opponent". It's what they do to us {capitalists are selfish/evil/child molesters/haters etc. Since you cannot prove a negative {I am not a nater. really.} you need to attack the use of that sort of argument.

It's a pithy and gritty little book, and I had to read it a couple of times before I understood how I could use it - but it works great and is cheap from Amazon.

You can't be argued out of something you weren't argued in to.

added to my collection of home page quotes...
thanks!

I am a total supporter of capitalism like I said in my first sentence. Perhaps I didnt make that clear enough. My 1 st point is that so many people seem to look for any excuse to trash capitalism, but ignore the obvious failings of socialism. My second point is that we have to point out the failings of socialism and not let them ignore them. And my third point is that we are so far from the general populace understanding the philosophical underpinnings of capitalism that it is more efficient at this point to point out the obvious failings of socialism in life today.

I believe that you are confusing issues in an attempt not to disclose you aversion to capitalism.

Your are more than welcome.

Mr. Gates created the Disk Operating System, the famous DOS, which IBM selected for its first PC, revolutionizing that industry by adopting open source, off the shelf components policy.

Even if I should live to well over 100 and continue collecting Social Security "benefits" I will never even remotely collect the entire present value od the money I was forced to "contribute" to the intergenerational Ponzi scheme created by the "great" FDR.

Just facts, please.

I would suggest a reexamination of the term "helping". I believe that throughout my career as a business owner I was helping all my customer solve their problems and improving their own productivity, foe a fee, od course. Each and every customer has to decide is the price of his purchase is worthy in pursuit of their own goals.

Just my opinions.

Yes I did, thank you for pointing the error out.

Did you mean to write " ... does Not truly reflect ..."?

If you lived in a communist country, you would understand communism very well, without studying Marx's and Engels' writings.

That was a sheer pleasure to watch.

Good plan...I'm working on the Rust Belt...

I'm from "The D", the bankrupt Motor City. If ever there was a place that has collapsed and could serve as a true experimental model for recovery through Capitalism, it would be there. I know some truly independent entrepreneurs are trying with some success, but the cronies and vultures are circling, too.

"If I were in charge", I'd suspend all taxes, personal and corporate, and regulations, immediately, and declare Detroit an international free trade zone. Legalizing drugs completely would be a great experiment, too, but I doubt that would fly.

Although, marijuana, under the thin veneer of medical use, is virtually legal, and I have some friends I know in the landscaping business who are allowed to grow a certain amount of weed to supply the legal users, and ("from what I've heard" ;-)) it's "quality" is far superior to the best stuff smuggled in from Mexico to say, Ann Arbor, in the 60's. A lot cheaper, too. And I have not noticed an increase of pot-crazed zombies running rampant through the town.

At the same time I would beef up (not militarize) the local police, supplemented with neighborhood defense associations, The fact that it takes the police department about one hour to respond to a 911 call is disgraceful.. It also makes no economic sense, as the population itself as most people know is less than 1/4 of what it used to be, but the police force has certainly not declined to that degree. So where are they?

The worst victims of the gang warfare there are the majority of peaceful, law=abiding citizens who just want to live their lives. Leading to the next step: getting rid of their onerous gun control laws in Detroit and letting the good people defend themselves and their property.

Then just leave it alone,.,,

Sorry, a little off topic, but thanks to ww ;-)...but not too far off...what better way to counter an emotional liberal argument than a working solution, especially in a formerly great city brought down by those same liberal ideas in the first place...

One final historical note, that I learned very young growing up in the city, when civics was taught seriously: Detroit burned to the ground almost completely in 1805, and a French priest came up with the still current motto of the city: "“Speramus meliora; resurget cineribus”: "“We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes”. It certainly did then, may it do so now.

I am convinced that Heinlein was an admirer of Rand.

I second that...+10. Heinlein is great, and the quote perfect.Words are so powerful...to those who will listen...

Thank You, Zen!!! -- j
.

you might say "I completely understand your
redistributing wealth......." -- j
.

Wendell, you might remind people that the poor
in the u.s. live many times better than those in the
rest of the world, and the reason is -- well -- the
capitalism which remains. . the huge advances in
technology come from free capitalistic markets for
brains and value. . and it took a capitalistic nation
to give birth to Atlas Shrugged. -- john

I see that you're pretty new to the site, so although you do have the right to your own choices, your misrepresentation of AR and her philosophy and comparison to Lenin and Trotsky, are unfounded. Such statements indicate to me that you haven't studied the philosophy or her non-fiction writings, other than maybe reading someone else's cliff notes. As to the comparison to Lenin and Trotsky as philosophers, uneducated or not, you might also need to check your understanding of what philosophy is, particularly when compared against the 'works' of either.

I'm not sure what your definition as 'greedy' is as it relates to Bill Gates, and although many have tried to make the claim that he 'stole' a lot of things, I don't know of anyone that was able to substantiate those allegations. His 'large programs' include support of Common Core as well as much of the rewrite of school curriculum to a more progressive slant and incomprehensible math and logic lessons and testing.

Rand's acceptance of Social Security funds when she became eligible as some kind of indicator that she didn't believe her own philosophy has been argued any number of times, yet fails when you study her writings addressing the very subject. AR was very much against the government taking any citizen's money. It was her money taken from her by the government. Any American that has worked in this country and had their money taken from them for the purpose of Social Security certainly deserves to have that money returned to them. She did not apply for nor take 'welfare'.

And to your discussion of violence and putting one's weapon down in favor of working something out when faced with your enemy, you have a long way to go to grasp the concept of the rights of man to be free of initiated force as well as his fully recognized right of self defense as required to stop force being used against himself, his property, or those he cares for. And additionally, that reason amongst men is always preferred as a means of resolving differences, and that the morality of never initiating violence or force against another to gain in life is not a pacifist statement. It simply recognizes that all men are entitled to the same individual rights, until they demonstrate that they don't respect the same.

A=A 🏁

Don't.... When you argue with a fool bystanders can't tell you apart. The people you are talking about don't want to hear the facts, information and most importantly the truth you are trying to convey. I am sure you know by now, that just upsets them. Take a moment and look at the world the way they do (be careful, its always warm and fuzzy and you might want to stay there). Anticipate waiting to receive your food stamp card at the end of the month along with your "check". Never in your life having to consider how hard the person that paid for your laziness had to work. You are playing a video game on the cell phone someone else created, when the battery goes dead. Now you spend 15 ranting about the d** battery, and why can't someone else make a battery that doesn't go dead.
Sorry! Thats what you are up against.

Appropriate quote from an excellent writer.

OK, let's take your comment an item at a time:
" Rand was a writer who became an uneducated philosopher" So, you're putting her in the same category as Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, to name a few? OK, I'll go along with that. Unfortunately, you then bring up Lenin and Trotsky; I am not sure by what measure do you consider mass murderers to be "philosophers"? Oh, yes, Lenin's speeches were initially published in Bolshevik propaganda "newspapers" and later published by the Soviet press as "Works." From firsthand experience I can tell you two facts about those "Works" - they were printed on very good quality paper and in the Soviet Union, due to endemic shortages of other type of paper, they were commonly used as toilet accessories...
" She was an idealist as noted by her writings from the beginnings" - And so was Christ, and look how far it took him!
" Not all government laws are anti-private business, are they?" - Actually, they are. Please name one or two that are not. (By anti-private business I would assume to mean anti-free market.)
" Not all private companies are "greedy" hence Microsoft's Gates (who stole many ideas) is supporting large programs, which is not charities." - Not sure how you define "greed" in this context, nor do I understand how this point relates to my original comment. In any case, every person, company or organization is "greedy" in the sense that he/she/it looks out for oneself and for one's interests. Otherwise, they would not exist very long. As to the question of "greed" from a negative connotation, Gates could serve as a poster boy.
" Rand herself collected Social Security as she thought it a fair value for value." - Again, not sure about the relevance of this comment to the original topic, but, in any case, Social Security is retirement fund, forcibly paid for by the government stealing a part of the wages of working people. As part of the government's Ponzi scheme, it promises to pay back after certain age. Are you implying that there's something wrong with collecting a part of what's been stolen from you? Now, if you would have addressed your point to people that collect Social Security without ever working or paying into it...
" But: no one is truly "objective"; we think, we reason, but we are emotional animals showing over and over our willingness to abject violence." - It is precisely Rand's philosophy that objects to violence, in all its forms, except for self defense, by controlling one's emotions and employing reason. That is a worthwhile goal, wouldn't you agree?
In summary, I can see that your premises, logic and character have not been completely formed yet, which is understandable for your age. Work on it; review your thoughts, and review them again when you put them in writing. It doesn't come overnight.

I love Heinlein.

Rand was a writer who became an uneducated philosopher, but so did Lenin and Trotsky and look how far it took them! She was an idealist as noted by her writings from the beginnings. Not all government laws are anti-private business, are they? Not all private companies are "greedy" hence Microsoft's Gates (who stole many ideas) is supporting large programs, which is not charities. Rand herself collected Social Security as she thought it a fair value for value.
But: no one is truly "objective"; we think, we reason, but we are emotional animals showing over and over our willingness to abject violence. If you tell your enemy, "Look, I just put my weapon down. Let's work this out." He will smile. . .and kill you, maybe without outward emotion, but nevertheless, pleased. That's but one example.