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Why's The TPP Secret? "Trans-Pacific Partnership: Not About Free Trade"

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years ago to Government
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Does Objectivist society need their government to make secret deals with other countries?

"Oddly, the same Republicans who won't trust Obama to negotiate a nuclear deal with Iran are ready to write him a blank check on the TPP. They're fine with letting him reconfigure a huge chunk of the global economy. Why? Because TPP has a "free trade" façade around its much deeper market intrusions.

Think about this. If free trade between nations were really the objective, would we need document libraries and secret deals? Of course not. The agreement would only have to be a few pages long. "The governments of country x, y, and z agree not to impose tariffs or otherwise hinder trade between themselves."

Free trade is simple. TPP is anything but simple. Therefore, TPP is not free trade."

But we can trust those in our government, right? They'll take care of us.
SOURCE URL: http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/36248/Trans-Pacific-Partnership-Not-About-Free-Trade/?uuid=6466857F-5056-9628-C218481581859D67


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  • Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 12 months ago
    I have written both of my Senators urging them to oppose fast track authority on TPP. Senator Casey(D) responded that he had problems with the way this was being handled and I feel he may oppose it. Senator Toomey(R) was rather bland in his response making me think he is supporting it. I agree with the central point that the deal is far more complex than is necessary.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 12 months ago
      My representative replied with a boilerplate letter describing what countries are involved but had no details... imo because he has no details either.
      He claims that he will consider it carefully, but I am past trusting congresscritters words when their actions speak louder. I sent a reply reiterating the problems with the process, the secret negotiations, and need for extensive public scrutiny and thoughtful legislative review (and that it isn't a constitutional power of the executive branch) before any agreement in order to avoid unintended consequences damaging to the people ... not that I expect it to have any effect.
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      • Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 12 months ago
        I am going to write again expressing those concerns. I have a friend who has been fighting this for some time now and she is more than frustrated at the bland responses. She has spoken to the local Republican leadership in an attempt to get them to take a strong position but they just put up a Facebook posting. Sounds like they aren't helping much.
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  • Posted by smichael9 8 years, 12 months ago
    From the basic standpoint of free trade between complimentary countries, it seems a simple arrangement (of course I'm a simple man) to agree on how to transfer goods and services between our countries. It should not impose a universal set of laws and rules that may override my laws or your laws. We operate with the full understanding that we are separate entities that wish to do business with one another to the mutual benefit of both of us. We both wish to retain our cultural, moral and legal rights without imposition of some third party intervening. If our mutual trade does not meet our needs, we can just go our own way and seek out other trade partners. It's international capitalism at it finest; we do business with one another until the arrangement no longer meets our needs or we find a better, cheaper, faster or more convenient place to do business with.

    My trade agreement with Home Depot was fine. I gave them money and they gave me goods and services. When the new Lowes opened up closer to my house, I liked their tools selections and their delivery arrangement enough to cancel my trade agreement with Home Depot and establish a new trade agreement with Lowes. Can't it be that simple? OK, maybe this is a stretch.............
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    • Posted by themoderatelibertarian 8 years, 12 months ago
      I'm a free trade person, but when it's not a level playing field, it's not a fair game. Let's take your illustration of Home Depot and Lowes. Let's assume that Lowes has some kind of secret deal with the government, where they get a subsidy with tax dollars from you and me that enable them to undercut Home Depot. Would you still deal with Lowes?
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      • Posted by smichael9 8 years, 12 months ago
        Themoderatelibertarian
        You've got a valid point which I didn't address. I was trying to keep it simple (mainly for me) and really didn't consider the point you make. I'm not sure how we deal with these types of situations, since it's fairly common for both city and state governments to offer "incentives" (typically tax breaks) to bring new business into depressed areas. Before retiring, I worked in the Chicago area with several fairly large firms that benefited from tax and other incentives to move into low income areas. They probably gained an advantage on their competitors due to lower costs, which on the surface seems unfair, but they did bring new jobs into the area which was a good thing.
        Respectfully,
        smichael9
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  • Posted by straightlinelogic 8 years, 12 months ago
    Good post. As the article makes clear, the secrecy of this deal is key. Just as we discovered with Obamacare and may discover with the potential Iranian agreement, deals that cannot be exposed to the light of day until the very last moment, not giving any opposition the opportunity to ask questions or pose challenges, are inevitably bad deals.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 12 months ago
    Thanks for posting, Zen.

    This 'agreement' was in the news frequently when I was living in Australia, and many people there have the same questions.
    This agreement is about transfer of power from the sovereign governments (with inconvenient courts of law that must sometimes answer to the people and protect their property) to international corporate interests without ties to any community. Power corrupts in ALL concentrations of power, in business and government. If this was about a free market, it would not be secret, and it would not contain provisions that prevent sovereign countries from looking after the best interest of their people.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 12 months ago
    How To Solve Any Problem: Obfuscate it with so many rules and regulations that nobody cant tell what it's about. That way, everyone can interpret it in any way they choose. In other words, just like Obamacare.
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 12 months ago
    You now see that they are all birds of a feather. The bickering that goes on between these politicians is only for public show. The will do what ever they can to damage the hand that feeds them the AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN!
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  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 12 months ago
    Some libertarian groups have been misguidedly campaigning in favor of TPP. EFF knows better -- it would make IP laws worse and more abusable. Let any trade treaty be debated in public so bad stuff can be cut out, or don't enact it!
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  • Posted by MinorLiberator 8 years, 12 months ago
    Well said, Z.

    Secrecy is not just a clue, by any reasonable standard of justice, it counts as "overwhelming and conclusive evidence" of wrongdoing and bad intentions.

    And I compliment you also on your one sentence statement of all an agreement on trade between countries needs to say.

    Just to add some clarification: secrecy may indeed be necessary between governments, I'm thinking in terms of something like mutual defense plans against a common and real enemy, details of weapons systems.

    But I see no possible reason for any secrecy in a trade deal, but am willing to consider other points of view.

    [edit to expand and clarify]
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 12 months ago
      Make that "secrecy on the part of government" and I'd agree. Private people and companies have the right to keep secrets without losing the presumption of innocence. The institutions of bullying do not.
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      • Posted by MinorLiberator 8 years, 12 months ago
        Definitely, I was talking about government secrecy, not private individuals...

        OTOH...I'm not 100% sure if this is right...haven't thought it through all the way...but sometimes I think politicians should forfeit some of their rights to privacy vs. your average citizen...like felons lose the right to vote...at least as they used to...I know that's changed...
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 12 months ago
    Why? Because the right wing of the left does what the left wing of the left tells them to do. Some days provide a charade, some days a parade. Because they are left wing fascist corporatist socialist and he Dumbos are left wing fascist statist socialists. Both believers in government control by any means.
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  • Posted by khalling 8 years, 12 months ago
    I appreciate the argument but there were no specifics in the article. What sorts of things do they think are being argued? Only let company x trade or give companies a and b a special break on any taxes? I'd like more information.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 12 months ago
      Of course we want more information. And that IS the point.
      There are no specifics BECAUSE it's a secret deal, and there is no way to justify that.
      We, the public, just can't possibly understand the complexity so we shouldn't have the information. It's in our best interest that we are treated like mushrooms. They are from the corporatocracy and they are here to help us. Sure. A pack of wolves deciding which of us sheep to have for dinner first.

      "Think about this. If free trade between nations were really the objective, would we need document libraries and secret deals? Of course not. The agreement would only have to be a few pages long. "The governments of country x, y, and z agree not to impose tariffs or otherwise hinder trade between themselves."

      Where is the "Snowden" with the real details?
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      • Posted by 8 years, 12 months ago
        Wikileaks has published a couple of leaked documents.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 12 months ago
          Thanks, Zen.
          Investment chapter released by wikileaks here:
          https://wikileaks.org/tpp-investment/

          Reading the released documents is quite tedious but revealing. One double edged sword being implemented is the international court for resolving disputes. This in particular overrides anything in the US Constitution that protects individuals. Obviously power concentrated in DC has proven that often the interests of individual liberty are crushed under the weight of political self interest. A higher international power will have even less to restrict it from destruction of rights uniquely protected in America. A large part of what I have read involves lowering the risk of investment by participants (corporations) in locations outside the US where control of the domestic government by a corporate 'participant' is not as easy as in the US. From an American viewpoint this would enhance the attractiveness of moving jobs out of the US. From an ethics standpoint it makes corruption of any participating government against the local people and customs by any corporation easier.
          If I was an independent POTUS, I would reject this agreement and veto it if it came to my desk. Any US elected official who signed it would be guilty of breaking his oath to the Constitution.
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