10

Oregon Becomes First State To Implement Per-Mile Road Tax

Posted by  $  nickursis 4 years, 7 months ago to Government
159 comments | Share | Flag

First into Bondage! Oregon leads the way! We have never seen a tax we didn't like! A holes.
I drive 1736 miles a month to work, @ 38 mpg I spend $13.70 a month. Were I stupid enough to do this rip off, (at the low, low price of 1.5cents per rutted, potholed mile next to beautiful bike lanes built with gas tax money) I would "give" or "donate" to the State of ineptitude 26.04. Only a 100% tax increase? I get a high mileage car because I do not want to cdonate to gas price manipulating oil companies, so now I get to give Oregon the equivelant of 60 cents a gallon in Road Tax because I don't "waste" enough gas for them? But now I can pay an additional 30 cents a gallon for eco friendly fuel that some Dumbocrap thought I "needed" to use so we could "support the alternate fuel industry" that gave so frickin much to them the last election they stole? DO NOT, DO NOT allow your state to go down this road, unless you own a 5 gallon a mile PU or something.
SOURCE URL: http://www.truthandaction.net/oregon-first-state-implement-per-mile-road-tax/


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • 11
    Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 7 months ago
    You are the Ore in Oregon.
    Perhaps you should become the Gone instead.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Well you are well and truley screwed unless you want to fly to work. Wa is a much a Communist state now and Oregon still makes you pay their income tax even if you live out of state. Don't know too much about Idaho, but you can see how long the commute would be. The illustrative part of this is they are both ruled by Dumbocraps, and they both can't find "enough" money to get a roll of toilet paper to wipe their as@, and they both have scandal after scandal involving corruption and vow to get to the bottom of it...all modeled after the successful takeover in WA DC.....
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  ObjectiveAnalyst 4 years, 7 months ago
    No matter what plan they create to pay for the roads the highwaymen in government will squander it on other things and continue to ask for more. Michigan has a new initiative on the next ballot to increase revenues for highway repair and maintenance. I don't remember when there wasn't a problem here that required yet another increase in taxes. Thieves... Of course they keep building more roads even though they can't maintain the existing ones, allow some of the highest load limits for trucks and build the roads out of play dough and grant us the privilege of sitting in traffic jams along side of miles of those orange barrels (the Mi. state tree) for miles while three men work/ run big machines and ten stand around leaning on shovels while "repairing" a few hundred feet at a time. The fines are increased for speeding in these endless zones so they can rob us of more money... It isn't about the roads. It is about revenue and job security for the politicians, road workers and the police.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Indeed OA, you are correct. The way they repair roads here is bizarre, they chew up the ire sections and fill them in, then that flakes up in the first winter. Or, pour oil on and throw gravel on it. They go cheaper and want more, and since it isn't on the roads, it is everywhere else, people in cubicles, bike lanes and rail for a small group. You hit it right...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 4 years, 7 months ago
        That's what we get here. I've never seen such a waste of effort! I would be more cost effective in the long run to just repave! And the holes here after this dreadful winter, they could swallow my Touareg whole with room to spare. I'm expecting CT to follow suit with some cockamamie scheme any time now..
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by SaltyDog 4 years, 7 months ago
    OK, let me see if I've got this...roughly seven tenth of one percent of the cars on America's roads are electric or hybrid. This of course is enough to cause a panic because gas tax revenues "might" drop. Therefor, we absolutely need to add a per mile tax! Of course, this will merely be a supplement to the already exorbitant fuel taxes and surcharges that we already pay. And let's not forget that when this huge surge of electric cars hits the road there will be a spike in energy usage, so naturally we'll have to raise taxes to subsidize the power generation industry.

    Bah!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Thank you sir. My sentiments. Of course, if you are a Dumb As@ liberral and sign up to be able to give the corrupt state more money to blow on Governors girlfriends contracts and stuff, just so you can have an unelected governor for 3.5 years, you don't care! Quit burdening me with crap Oregon and just let the liberals send you checks to waste. The "promise" to send you a check for the gas tax money, but you know how government and promises are. Yes, I bet you they make this mandatory, and you will have to pay both, and then they will say why they can't send the gas tax back because they really need a new bike path through the sewage treatment plant in Oshi@@ty Falls or something. They are already going to rob us blind here because the morons sold out (Democraps of course) to the "eco" fuel lobby, so we will also pay 30 cents more a gallon for gas we can't use in cars or lawnmowers etc. Morons, morons, morons,morons.....politicians..morons...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by kevinw 4 years, 7 months ago
      Don't forget the addition of a whole new level of bureaucracy to enforce it and of course that will eat up the funding so we will have to add to the gas tax and add some more rules and some more bureaucracy over the power generation industry to make sure they use "green" technology and some infrastructure to get the power to those cars will need more bureaucracy to keep all this running smoothly and if that doesn't work, of course, we'll need more funding.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by term2 4 years, 7 months ago
        The purpose of government is the promotion and expansion of government and its minions. Any provision of services is an expense to be minimized and an afterthought
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
    Because...

    a. the voters won't approve a sales tax
    b. the voters limited the property tax
    c. the voters haven't got around to running a recall - which they have.
    d. the voters haven't moved elsewhere.
    e. because the voters don't know the meaning of BOHICA.
    f. they went to school in Ashland?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      You must live here or in a similar Socialist State. The voters have tried to control their addiction to money as you say above, and BOHICA becomes trite after a while.It all goes back to the picture Ayn Rand painted in AS, these greedy goons know no bounds, and they really think they can better spend your money, and have a mission from God to do so....I hate to dissuade them from their fantasy...but no.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by zzdragon 4 years, 7 months ago
    Can I jump in here? As a former Oregonian and now a Texan by choice. I bought my wife a hybrid which she is getting 43 not 41 mpg that the EPA tag on the window stated. She works at it except when she is driving my Mini Cooper Clubman which gets 29 MPG. WE don’t want to pay any more than we just have too to the BIG oil companies.
    About 3 weeks ago I was talking to a friend about this and I stated that it wouldn’t be long before the states instituted a mileage tax and keep the per gal or the sales tax on fuels. As the non news watching left wing air head voter said at that time. “Oh that will never happen.” Just can’t wait to see him again.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by jimslag 4 years, 7 months ago
    So, I am not picking on you Nickursis, but the mantra is vote with your feet. If you don't like it, leave. Just please don't bring it with you, please leave this disease in Oregon. It is California, hundreds of people are leaving but as we see in Colorado, they brought their politics with them. So sad to see the Blue disease spreading like that.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Well,again, they know they have you hostage. You can't bail because of dumb ass greedy politicians. There arn't many other places that do not have their own version. The legalizatin of pot is going to contribute to the general silliness factor going up 100%, so it will just get worse. Intel left Colorado because they wanted to increase their taxes a big amount, and Oregon buys them with tax exemptions. Washington is almost worse, buy a Hybrid and pay 500/year "surcharge" because you are not paying your fair share. The most offensive bit about this is a 100% tax increase, all slid under the table as "fair". But nothing to address the real issue: how to get bike people to pay their fair share, and make the train people pay theirs. Same issue in California. But they will implode in the next year or so from their own issues with water, so we may get to start over there. Thanks
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  Thoritsu 4 years, 7 months ago
    The implementation seems wrong, but a consumption tax (paying for the wear on roads) rather than a vehicle or gas tax would be nice.

    I hate that trucking is subsidized the taxpayer and car owner, when a majority of road wear (and considerable congestion) comes from trucking. Trains would crush trucking for long hauls were it not for this.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
      Trains lost out soon after WWII when they threatened massive strikes. As a result the then President set up military train operation units and then emulated what had seen in Europe the autobahn. Called the National Defense Highway System and coupled with cheap gasoline (25 cents a gallon) it became the freeway system you all now enjoy. Trains cannot and have not been able to make a living unless their consist (number and types of cars) carry one product to one destination. Except for passengers, Also the rail lines are not in place for long runs. SE US to SW us routes through Chicago. The west coast line has two sections by bus. etc. etc.The only product I can think of other than grain is coal and get this. Eastern US Coal to Oregon to fuel Boardman electric plant after they forced a shut down of Trojan nuclear for environmental reasons. What a bunch of goofs.

      Roads that is freeways led to UPS then add aircraft which replaced trains and ships, computers, and a new phone system with a real long distance ability led to Amazon and bingo todays order is in your house tomorrow. Trains are only part of the system and like Russia we need to fix what is broke.

      So when are trains most useful?

      Like loads to like destinations.

      Use of shipping containers from China to LA to Baltimore.

      When there are tracks in place

      when the price of truck fuel surpasses trainfuel ha ha they are both diesel.

      When the industry and it's unions out weigh the trucking version and regain what it lost in the early fifties.l
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  Thoritsu 4 years, 7 months ago
        My point about trains is that trains are about 3.5x less expensive per ton-mile for shipping than trucks (far more fuel efficient). Trucks benefit from roads being paid for by taxes and further subsidized by vehicle taxes.

        Agree, train unions and pork-politics killed them, but now the Teamsters keep trucking artificially affordable.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
          Some Teamsters contracts are interesting. They are based on percentage of minimum wage. Around the year 2000 that went up, delivery costs to the stores went up and the nickel candy bar of my youth became fifty cents and half the size.Guess who supports minimum wage increases instead of asking for a regular pay increase. The hamburger flippers did not share in that largess as the 25 cent hamburger special at Mcdonalds, the one dollar menu and more disappeared. All just fifteen short years ago.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
          Indeed, you are correct, I think CSX claims like 50 mpg in equivalent per ton mileage. But they are big frickin trains too. Rail suffers from the lack of special interest money that trucking can bring to the table, since it doesn't take near as many people to move a lot more cargo.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
        Ohhh, get me started!!! In Portland (I think it was a Left Coast deal) the longshoreman went on slowdown, caused issues and 2 companies packed up. THat lost 600 jobs making 150K/yr. Are they pissed!! That is how stupid they are, and greedy. They thought the requirement to contribute to their health care was outrageous, despite having voted for the Obamanation and allowing the ObamaCare to pass all the while thinking it was for "THEM' not US. Us has become them and that has really, really pissed them off. Systems that depend on human glue seem to invariable fall due to the greed of the glue. You are NEVER indispensable, do not make that mistake.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
          Some years ago when gas 85 cents or so Oregon put in a five cents a gallon per for three years so fifteen cents a gallon total tax. That was on the at the pump price. Now they are going for rubber on the road. All that's left is the exhaust. Carbon tax anyone?
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
            That will soon be reality, I am thinking, it is too good an opportunity to get sheep to buy into, and blame someone for "Global Warming" and force them to pay. Even though, as I see it, China is a primary culprit who has raised their middle finger to everyone.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by livefree-NH 4 years, 7 months ago
    1736 miles divided by 38 mpg yields ~ 45 gallons. Where do you get 45 gallons for $13.70? Here in NH that costs over a hundred bucks. I think you lost a decimal point there, but the point is well taken.

    And that only adds to your point, with which I agree: the tax and justification is indefensible on any grounds. If they are calling it a "usage tax", no matter whether you are using the gas, or using the roads (wearing them down, etc.), it's not best measured by how many miles you travel. Me and my little Prius "use" very little, VERY VERY little, of either. 50mpg and unmeasurable road usage. Yet since I bought it last July I have driven 20,000+ miles. And much of that was out of state to see my brother in Florida, my other brother in Maryland, and wondering how much of this kind of state tax I would be assessed for driving outside the jurisdiction of such a state? Heck, I commute into Mass. daily, sometimes twice daily (I eat lunch at home sometimes) and the miles I drive in my home state of NH is probably less than a tenth of the odometer number.

    I'm sure glad that the Prius keeps close track of the details of my driving: where, when, how fast, and more. We can stop wondering why this kind of metrics were added to the on-board systems for US autos.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Sunjock13 4 years, 7 months ago
    Constitution????? Let's not forget we have Constitutional rights (yes, even in Oretopia). This must be challenged on several levels... just pleased that at least this over-reach did not originate in The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia!!!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
      Unless the Patriot Act is used then it trumps the Bill of Rights. What Constitution was that??? These days a mighty weak reed...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Sunjock13 4 years, 7 months ago
        Don't confuse enforcement (and the criminals we have in office) with the strength of the Document... It is the unaltered Constitution and CAN be enforced... it is the weak Imperial Administration that must be changed (indictment would be better, but, let's just settle for removal).
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
          Amen to that. First start with the Patriot Act and the Protective Echelon. The value is in the amount of people that are responsible enough to make change and that includes changes in the Constitution done legally. Let me know when you find them. In the military we took our oath to the Constitution. Then returned to find the people had sold us out. I don't know how many must be's the Constitution Party has or hasn't. Haven't been provided any information yet or reasons for or against. Do they really exist?
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
            Go to Pittsburgh Fri?sat and you can meet them. I love the idea, but they go off the edge with their 7 Principles;
            1. Life for all human beings:
            from conception to natural death.
            I do not want to tell anyone or have any tell me about what I consider to be a personal decision, but thats just me.
            2. Freedom of conscience and actions
            for the self-governed individual.
            I'm ok with this.
            3. One husband and one wife with their children,
            as divinely instituted.
            Again, the Constitution does not say anything about this, that I know of, and I abhor telling anyone what to do, as long as it is not impressed on me. Marry a football for all I care.

            Those are the 2 biiges, the third and all the rest they have are all ok, and seem sort of objectivist to me. They have 90% of what I believe in, I just wish they would leave religion and personal choices out of the discussion. That would make it a great party to go with.

            http://www.constitutionparty.com/

            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
            • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
              hmmm

              1. From viability in the event of premature birth and no last second abortion as a right of citizenship. Before that I agree with abortion. Afterwards it is not the Mothers right to murder.

              2. 2. Ditto

              3. Negative. It's a failed institution number one with a 60% failure rate or higher. No one's business as long as their is no child or spousal abuse etc.

              So we all have our differences. Here's the answer. Each defines their sacred ground where they won't give a centimeter. Those that have a common center form not a party where no deviation is allowed but a coalition with emphasis on what is attainable. The rest will follow.

              Oh yes and ignore the Devils Secular Congregation which is a polite way of saying if they support evil at any level they are themselves evil. So...Dumbos and Repos get behind me.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
                Part of the problem of politics is the division and conquer startegy whereby like minded people are fractured by an individual topic. I would prefer a broad based definition of freedom and liberty, and leave it up to the individual. You cannot set your moral boundaries on others and expect compliance, that is what they use to generate divisiveness and so, take over. Look at the current Republicans, they have so many fractured little camps with one special thing that they can never get together enough people to go with them, and the Democraps take advantage of that by doing nothing but babbeling in generic terms about "change", never specifying anything. Thus we have the Obamanation for 8 long ugly years. Hillary is trying to capitalize on the same thing with her generic "I'm for you, middle class" and pretending she actually knows what "middle class" means.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
        Sad, but true..and don't go look at the Constitution party, they have as many "must be's" than any other party.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
          As long as it's Constitutional, Sorry moot point. I gotta feel sorry for people that believe in something that doesn't exist.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
            Actually look above, the Constitution party is 90% there. I just believe if you want to say "Freedom" you have to take the good with the bad. You can't restrict Freedom to decide on your own health matters, and then say Freedom for guns or laws. Non-sequitur Other than that I would go with them..
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Oh, do not fall for it, you can bet Kommisar Brown will need a few billion more for his train, and maybe some to buy bottled water from Oretopia, so I will bet you see it within a year, as soon as Oretopia pays all the development costs, and can export the looting method..
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Zenphamy 4 years, 7 months ago
    Oregon is punishing technology advance. In this case those that have improved the mpg that in an ironic twist, the government forced industry to undertake in the first place.

    But somehow, politicians understand this kind of logic. The rest of us, not so much.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by slfisher 4 years, 7 months ago
    My issue with these systems is that I don't want the government keeping track of where I'm driving.

    I also think that trucks should pay more, because they damage the roads more.

    That said, assuming we can find a way to do this that protects people's privacy, I don't have a problem with the method. People who drive more pay more. Seems fair to me. What way do you think would be more fair?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Simple: There are many studies that show what you say is true, yet most trucking fees go to Federal programs. In this case, you can keep a log and pay that way (which will be really accurate), but my objection is that there is a 30cent a gallon tax for roads. That money has been squandered for bike trails, bike paths and mass transit. That is not related to roads. I am pretty sure I am paying my fair share for my little car (1200 lbs of Fiesta). Based on the "use" theory, why does not a big F250 which weighs 4 times what my car does, have to pay 4 times more for the "use" they get. Also, these idiots are the same ones who think that a 30 cent a gallon icrease for "greener" fuel is off set by better fuel efficiency, which demolishes the "you use less and need to pay more" argument, as they are the ones encouraging/forcing you to get a more efficient car. It all goes back to this: Government NEVER has enough money to give away freely to all the special interest groups that have gotten them elected, AND all of their own "special" programs and interests. The gas tax was for roads and road maintenance, I do not think I should have to pay 100% more to pay for their Liberal agenda or interests. When they get their crap together, go back to just maintaining and building roads, cull all the parasites they have brought in "their buddies", and still do not have enough, come back and justify why an increase is needed, and we'll talk. Until then, they can go loot the bike riders or whoever. Look at the post I put up about California, a perfect example of this, their roads are falling apart and gridlocked, but Goofy Brown wants to spend 4 billion for a train that supports 250K people. I don't like other people telling me why I have to pay for someone else's fetish. I will get my own fetishes, thank you.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
        Did yiou ever look up the cost per mile for Seattle Mass Transit? They should rename it Obama West or Boston II or just plain Chicago.

        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
          No, I have no idea where such data would be, I assume it is not in plain sight. Even sheep can get scared....
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
          • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
            I just used Google. Seattle at one billion per mile for their new Light Rail was second behind the big time winner of Boston on their system. The much at the time maligned BART in San Francisco is chump change by todays standards

            No wonder they can't hook up the Southern Pacific line in the Louisiana Texas area or the west coast railroad which has two bus sections from Sacramento to LA unless you take the coast route at 24 hours extra travel time etc. etc. etc. Why build European style bullet trains when there's no infrastructure to carry the speed. Why improve bus service when the stations more often than not are in high crime ghetto areas. Why improve air travel when it's being used as tool of oppression?
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by plusaf 4 years, 7 months ago
    My post to that linked title page, (awaiting approval from the Powers That Be, of course...)

    For a VERY long time, I’ve advocated something like that plan as what MIGHT be the only equitable way to pay for infrastructure creation and maintenance, but I’ll bet that all of the states are missing a point or two…

    Per Critical Thinking, what determines the need for highways, bridges, tunnels and their replacement and maintenance?

    1) the number of vehicles using them.
    2) the number of miles the vehicles travel.
    3) the gross weight of the vehicles.

    So a SMART ‘gas tax’ would include a flat “per vehicle” rate (to cover the basic ‘paperwork’ overhead and administration. Maybe $10-20 a year per car.
    Next would be a Per Mile assessment, and the easiest way to do that is yearly, during the annual vehicle inspection.
    And the per-mile assessment would be based on a sliding scale proportional to the WEIGHT of the vehicle.

    There’s no reason for me to pay any rate on my 4-5000-per year Prius at 43 mpg that’s similar to the 15-ton gravel truck creating potholes with its every-day on-the-job pavement-pounding work.

    Or for a motorcycle to subsidize a mobile home or interstate truck.

    ALL of the taxes paid by commercial companies would be passed on to everyone who USES the services of those trucks, buses and whatevers. Seriously “fair,” if I can use that word at all.

    Think about it. Per-Mile ALONE makes NO sense without a gross-vehicle-weight plan.

    But, since most such ‘tax laws’ need only one thing in order to be passed… What they’re taxing must be MEASURABLE, and little more than that… we’ll definitely see a lot of this unthinking crap surface in the years ahead.

    Critical Thinking is Dead.

    Although a few laws like those might create something just as effective as Term Limit Legislation, which NO legislature will EVER pass…

    Ah, the irony!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
      Here's the dirtyi little secret. The powers that be are more than willing to install your smart tax and keep the dumb ones. they love any kind of taxation. Besides to their way of thinking it's their money.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
      I dont own a car. But i have a little dinghy to row and I'm thinking of upgrading to an inflatable kayak..'

      I don't buy gas and just as very very little amount of diesel.

      I make my own electricity.

      No House no property tax.

      Vehicle licensing down to $150 year.

      No newspaper, no tv reception, no tv, no wifi that I pay for.

      About $10 a month for a cell phone.

      This year I have a tax refund but not too big which is good. I didn't lose much buying power that way.

      When i use the dock I pay $400 a month and get electricity, garbage, water, Divide by30 multiply by number of days. The rest of the time I go fishing, diving, or kayaking or......

      Life is SOOOOOOOOO hard.






      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      You are correct, I am NOT adverse to paying because I use more road. BUT, before I do that, the damn system needs to own up and NOT pay for bikes or trains, and scale it as you suggest. As you said, Critical Thinking dictates you pay for what you use in a reliable, fair and transparent system. Unfortunately that DOE NOT support the Democrap desire to give away to their little groups. Just like reforming a State retirement system that is doomed to bankruptcy can never happen when a crowd big enough to effect an election, is involved. So, Oreogn will follow California into bankruptcy at some point, and all the time they will tell you why it is your fault. So Ayn Randish it's scary... Thank you, your post was very well said.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Clairity 4 years, 7 months ago
    Too bad you couldn't get a gyro copter like the mailman that landed at the whitehouse. He didn't use any roads and no taxes. Don't forget to buzz the state capital. 😀
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Oh man, they still would find a way to tax the crap out of it, just with the catch all "registration". What you use has no bearing on it, they will still take..and take...and take...like good addicts.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by jdg 4 years, 7 months ago
    They're mostly doing this because it isn't politically possible to charge heavy trucks in proportion to the damage they do.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 4 years, 7 months ago
      Not while they rely so heavily on the Teamsters. But do away political contributions from non-voting or out of precinct or ballot book entities and watch the change in attitude.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      So it is easier to go after the individual, rather than business? Thats reassuring and fair. Any time the term "politically impossible" is used, it is either "really dumb", "a special interest", "my idea", "my donors do not approve" or a random mixture thereof. None of which I give a rats ass about, keep your troll like claw out of my pocket Salem. You are, of course, correct. Weight and size do matter, and should be factored into the fees needed. One big part of the problem is the trolls in charge LOVE to call a banana a tool, so they can charge you a tax on it as a luxury. Or some other off the wall thing, that allows them to take money for one thing and use it for what they want, bankrupting the system in the process. If they can't float a bond and go into huge debt, they are left with manipulating the tax system. This has gone far enough, and I think people will not pay a 100% increase. I want to see the IQ scores of the 5000 "pilot" tester, and their mileage. I bet they will end up driving 100 miles a year or some such.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by jdg 4 years, 7 months ago
        I agree with you re. cronyism, but I have no problem with a tax if it amounts to paying your own way (in econ-speak a "Pigouvian tax").

        The big problem with road-use taxes is that the greens have sucked a major part of the take out of the highway trust fund (federally and in most states), usually to spend on things like public transport which promises to reduce highway congestion but doesn't. Then they let our roads fall apart, but nobody will vote to increase the fuel tax because it'll just get diverted and wasted again. Oregon, with its deliberate policy of never building or widening roads (because driving is "evil"), is probably the worst state in the Union for this problem.

        Nearly all truckers (all but the local ones) already have to log their miles and stopping places on a daily basis, and get taxed by the mile (and apportioned among the states by miles driven). It's not that hard to do for them, because most of them are satellite-tracked by their dispatchers. But it would be expensive to expand that system to cover other road users.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
          Well, you have encapsulated it nicely. That is the problem and Kalifornia is already there, with their Boob In Charge wanting 4 billion or so for more rail. Brown could be the poster boy for your statement
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  WilliamShipley 4 years, 7 months ago
    Aside from the fact that we all really hate taxes and the government's ability to take our money at will, the question is: How do you pay to build and maintain roads?

    There have been many discussions about private roads, but setting that aside, if we continue to have government roads -- and that certainly seems to be the current standard -- what is the appropriate way to pay for them?

    One answer is toll roads, which works with long stretches of limited access roads, but doesn't work so well with the vast network of roads that we use. Do we register with a toll system on every corner?

    We have traditionally used gas taxes which had the characteristic of being essentially a use tax. As a use tax, it's flawed, tractors don't use the roads very often but pay the gas tax. This was a big deal in Illinois in the city vs rural battle.

    The new challenge is cars that use little or no gas. They do, however, generate the same amount of road wear and tear. If we pay for roads by a use fee shouldn't they pay the same as any other vehicle?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by jdg 4 years, 7 months ago
      I would prefer to privatize the road system, to the extent it can be done without creating chaos.

      I would have the homeowners pay for their neighborhood streets, and make everything else toll. I'd standardize on one type of transponder (probably EZ-Pass, which is already used in about 15 states), avoiding any need for toll collectors.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
        Uh, they would have to get rid of the gas tax, and I have yet to see a politician who could stand to get rid f a tax. Just cutting it requires they get psychotherapy.... besides, you still have the problem of "We have to raise rates for..." and when pricvatized you have no choice, what options do you have? Not drive? Personally, I would opt for a monorail system with 4 or 6 person cars that has interchanges and connections that could be computer controlled, and have pylons made from recycled plastic with polymer for strength. Maybe a sci fi idea but the energy spent on building roads is probably nearly the same.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by jdg 4 years, 7 months ago
          The automobile gives you a degree of control of your trip (and your personal environment during that trip) that no transit system can ever match. This is why we must never allow the greens destroy driving (or price it out of reach of most people), as they are now trying hard to do.

          Privatizing the system may be the only way to take the ability to do this away from greens (and from their scam and cartel known as urban planning).
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by khalling 4 years, 7 months ago
      your state and federal govt were to use the general revenue for the maintenance of roads. well that failed-because they had other schemes. so they add a gas tax. Unfortunately it is not a legitimate revenue source for roads because it goes directly into the general coffers. so discussing how best to calculate such a tax is discussing how efficient the govt should be in increasing the level of your slavery. The per mile scheme is a 4th and 5th Amendment violation. The govt has no business knowing without your consent how many miles you drive. (still setting aside the private owned roads argument).
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  WilliamShipley 4 years, 7 months ago
        If you sell your car, or in California, get a mandatory smog check, the government gets the current odometer reading so the battle to keep how many miles you drive private is long gone.

        Assuming the government keeps being building and maintaining the roads, they have to be paid for. I think it does make more sense to make it a targeted use tax that a general tax on everyone that pays for the road.

        Unless you are going to make try to make the case that the 1% should be paying for the roads -- which I rather suspect is not something you are going to advocate!
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by jdg 4 years, 7 months ago
          In California every time you take your car in to be worked on, even if it's just a tuneup or oil change, they have to show the odometer reading on the receipt. I find this useful in my tax practice -- you can use it to calculate miles driven during the year if the owner didn't keep a log.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
            Yes, you get that in most shops, usually an in and out number to prove they didn't go joyriding. There are many ways to log your miles, and do not involve GPS. Just remember, the cubical cockroach thinking this stuff up may not know a thing about cars or their workings.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
          Oh, the infamous car checks. Luckily if you live outside their zone of death around Portland, you don't need it.Most people I know who live up there spend hundreds for their car to pass, as they take a perfectly running car into a check, and then are told they failed, go to a shop, ay hundreds and magically it passes. Most people never even get told why, the standard is "adjustment". What frigging adjustments do you need today on a car? That is a whole nother scam...But yes, I will pay based on milage after they seperate bikes and trains from the system, and cull all the idiots that sit in Salem doing nothing. DOT is a blackhole with no accountability. Sort of like the rest of government...
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by plusaf 4 years, 7 months ago
            $30 or so in NC for the yearly tithe, and some new models are exempt for the first few years. My '04 Prius has never failed CA or NC emissions tests.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by plusaf 4 years, 7 months ago
      William, toll roads might work in a lot of areas, but one nasty question their proponents NEVER answer is... "what's a 'reasonable' price PER MILE for vehicles, if you're charging per-mile tolls?"

      I'd love a Consumer Reports chart for tunnels and highways showing the Per-Mile charges!

      Talk about non-Transparency!
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by nudeswimmer 4 years, 7 months ago
    If they'd stop giving all our money to those that "Live off the system" Do I dare say Illegal Aliens? Then just maybe there would be some of OUR money to spend on US that pay into the system. The commi govt is giving away better then I can afford to buy for myself.
    This is just another way of shoring up a system that gives to those that have no interest in contributing to their own support.
    When I was in High School my dad told me that I wasn't a good person if I didn't learn Spanish, look what that has gotten us!!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by nudeswimmer 4 years, 7 months ago
      No, Wait, This just came to me; the govt will have a way of knowing who bought how much gas where and a GPS in each car to know where we drove at what speed and where we stopped for how long?
      1.5 cents a mile is the least of the problem here. This is complete and total invasion of constitutional privacy and control of the citizens.
      Who stopped at what sex toys store and who went to the theater showing AS3? Anyone not agreeing with the monkeys "on the hill" just became a terrorist and they have the data to prove it!
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  jlc 4 years, 7 months ago
    Can you get an electric car and a solar array with a power pallet to back it up? That is the only way I see to get around this whilst keeping your job and lifestyle.

    If a hybrid car (maybe a better idea), then do you live close enough to a border to drive across once a month and fill up some gas cans? A hybrid would give you more flexibility, notably out of state. Really, the only thing you can do personally is 'not feed the beast'.

    Jan
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Jan, I am waiting for Elio to get their 83mpg 2 seater, 3 wheeler car going, and they are being assailed by all the special interests as well with every excuse in the book (just as they destroyed Tucker). But that just makes their complaint louder as I will use less gasand still "steal" road usage. There are so many special interests tied up in this mess, you cannot just blame it on efficiency. Oregon gives you big tax breaks for having a hybrid, so how can they give that and then complain about the other. And don't get a hybrid in Washington state, they want to charge a 500.00/year "surcharge" for registration based on the same argument. It still goes back to greedy corrupt government wanting to take money given for one purpose (roads) and use it for their own agenda(bikes/trains) and then turn around and bitch out the cash cows and claim they are not paying their fair share. They should take all the cost of bike lanes, divide by number of registered bikes, and charge them the surcharge needed to pay for it. But then, that would offend many Liberal agendas,which we can't have.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by plusaf 4 years, 7 months ago
      Oh, Jan, it can get lots worse than that... Back in the early '60s and the First Gas Shortage, I could get no more than $2-3 worth of gas at a nearby NJ station, but if I drove 30 miles and crossed the Delaware into PA, I could get a fill-up and the service guy would ask if he could check the oil and clean the windshield.

      Some month or so later I discovered that NJ had NOT voted for the then-current President, but PA had! Go figure!

      I wrote my NJ congressman about that and gee... in a month or so, SUDDENLY the NJ gasoline allocation went way up.

      Really!
      Such bullshit... all over the place! Nothing new.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 4 years, 7 months ago
    The simple solution is to make more of the major roads that require the most state money for maintenance toll roads. Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas are going this direction, and are instituting mutual recognition of each others' computer toll systems, so the revenue is automatically distributed to the correct state.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 7 months ago
    Doesn't Melbourne, FL look great right now, Nickursis?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Actually, no. My wife hates thunderstorms and we rarely have any. Intel has no fabs there, and the one I work in is a very easy going org. It is just so frustrating to have to have these bastards with both hands and a foot in your pockets, and even when you try to communicate with them, they ignore you, unless your on the 100.00 donor list or something. They are utterly worthless.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 7 months ago
        Intersil (formerly part of Harris) has a small fab lab here, although most of it went to California. You are correct in saying that we have no Intel presence. As for the thunderstorms, yes, we do have a lot of them in the rainy season. You could still snowbird here.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 4 years, 7 months ago
    In the movie Patriot Games, Samuel Jackson's character bestows a medal on Harrison Ford's character: The Order of the Purple Target.

    Lt. Cmdr. Robby Jackson (played by Samuel L. Jackson): Attention to orders. I have a presentation to make. For service above and beyond the call of duty of a tourist, or even a Marine, we recognize Professor John Patrick Ryan (played by Harrison Ford), with the Order of the Purple Target.

    [he hangs a medal around Jack's neck in the shape of a bulls-eye, with the words "SHOOT ME" on it]

    Lt. Cmdr. Robby Jackson: And hope that he will duck next time, lest he become part of history, rather than a teacher of it.

    This scene describes exactly how I feel about taxation. I am walking around with a target on myself.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      Oh yea...my favorite and only favorite politician Jack Ryan. I still loved the ending of the book/movie where the team is over in the middle east and Jack tells them to packs sand, followed closely by a missile between the eyes. But yes, you have it true, classic looter syndrome, take and lie at the same time, ensure insult is added to injury. Proper politics.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by SaltyDog 4 years, 7 months ago
    Just out of curiosity...how will this affect drivers who are just passing through? Truckers? Tourists? Will they have someone at the state line with a fist full of invoices?

    *Note to self: Stay the hell out of Oregon.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
      It will not effect out of staters. And there is some discussion of how they could make it mandatory. Only a complete idiot will givew these damn grubbing money hogs 100% more in taxes, so the debate is "can they force you to do it?". In other forums consensus is maybe they will equip cars in OR withsome reporting device and make it required to license them. Who can know the mind of God, or a dumbass democrap. TRY CUTTING YOUR DAMN BUDGET MORONS, AND QUIT GIVING 200K CONTRACTS TO THE GOVENORS GIRLFRIEND AND THEN CROWING TO EVERYONE HOW YOU ARE GOING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT AND THEN DROP THE WHOLE THING. John Kitzrobber is out own Pelosi. Ever since he "resigned" you have not heard a word and he committed several felonies and no one will ever prosecute.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by starznbarz 4 years, 7 months ago
        U.S. vehicle computer systems from about 1984 were able to transmit location, the reasoning at the time was to keep vehicles that were built non compliant with California emission systems from being sold in California dealerships, we got a service notice on it back in the day. Modern vehicles equipped with GPS systems can already track your location and route....got Onstar? Systems in place, satellites in place, only thing left is access to your bank account.....got autopay? IRS deposit your tax refund direct deposit? What goes in can be extracted.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
          NOOOOO.. a thousand times I say NOOOO. Never, ever give your authorization for those greedy goons to take money, they are drug addicts, you will have nothing left after they tell you why "you owe"...Never trust government. Like they said "Trust but verify" and you can't verify liars.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  4 years, 7 months ago
        I am sooooo tired of paying for Portland bike paths/lanes and then being told how they have no money and need to come up with more. A billion her for light rail for 20K people, a billion here for some pretty bike lanes so a yuppie liberal can go to work 3/4 mile from his apartment....crap...
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo