Since reasoning is volitional, "static knowledge" cannot "preclude" the reasoning.

That is because science and technology are based on a specific philosophical system. Without the underlying philosophy both wither and die, as we are witnessing is science today - AGW being just one example.

Hello, JC,

I think that we might have a misunderstanding. I used figurative "plop" technique of birth, mirroring the phrase K used in her comment to which I was replying.

All people are born in their age. How can they help it? It is people's ideas that can arouse problems. The "surroundings" I was mentioning include powers to be, ideological and political climates [ignore the fashionable warming and cooling for the moment, please! ;-)] health and character of the bright-minded individual and many other things. So, it is only the ideas that can be in the wrong places or at the wrong time. Notice the intriguing echo in this form Einstein's theory.

What you describe about happenings to Galileo, I tried to summarize with "look what happened to him"

As Ayn Rand explained, I think, very clearly, philosophies based on mysticism and faith prevent humans from achieving better knowledge and the productive results of that knowledge. From Plato, through Kant, to all the modern offshoots from them, throughout the 25 centuries or so. Many Christians take their doctrine as their philosophy. Look at what price!
I am particularly appalled at the reputation that Augustine of Hippo still enjoys. In my view, he is an extremely crafty obscurantist.

Just my opinions.

Except there is always something more to learn.

It really comes down to a very simple question: Are we biological constructs obeying the laws of physics and chemistry (which is a form of physics), or do we have a metaphysical, mystical attribute?

If we are constructs, however complex, then reason will eventually determine the full nature of how we are built and allow us to replicate ourselves.

Of course, we're not all that sure that we have volitional consciousness ourselves.

Interesting. I like the boat analogy.

Jan

Good questions about the distinction between making and inventing. What you seem to be saying is that we are progressively 'excluding' the criteria that 'are not distinctly human' but that we have not made a lot of progress on the 'inclusive' question of 'what does?'

Jan

Galileo reminds me of Stravinsky: Too famous to eradicate...you have to make him toe the line.

Jan

Pour me a glass! (What am I drinking?)

Jan

I agree with you philosophically - all the way. I do, however, struggle with the details as strutgasky does (above).

Jan

"Some" of the earliest towns were wall-less. These towns (Peru, Crete, E Mediterranean) all show archeological evidence of being enthusiastic trading centers. There may actually be a choice of trade/war.

Jan

Good tech comment: But I believe they could cast them in brass - which is a self-lubricating metal.

Jan

Yes.

Jan

The example of ancient China is a 'hinge' point. It shows how tech superiority can be entirely trumped by politics - to the visible result of China then becoming a backwater both technologically and politically.

Ancient China reminds me of the society in Rand's Anthem.

Jan

jlc-
Very interesting comment. I could open a bottle of wine and pass an exhilarating afternoon contemplating your points. Thanks.

Maritimus:
Well said. "...equal opportunity does not guarantee equal outcome."

Dr.Z- Glad you brought this topic up.
(See my response to Maritimus).

db:
Well stated. Another point on this- to imitate (to copy) while not processing the 'why' and the 'how' and the 'make it better' is a limited, static knowledge that could be said precludes the process of reasoning and logic. (Some animals can, to a very limited degree, imitate some action that they repeatedly see without any 'understanding'.

Maritimus:
Oh yea, it will happen. Most physicist today will tell you that it is not a matter of how but when...
Try reading "Physics of the Future" by Michio Kaku. If you want to better understand this concept you will find much in this book and others he has written.

Sure, but there was no reason that we had to go backwards, except that christian ideologies took over.

Maritimus:
Galileo was not "plopped", he was born to his Age. Somewhat a difference. Don't forget that Galileo was called before the "powers that be", the Pope/Catholic church that, at that time, was all powerful and he was threatened with his life if he did not recant his scientific findings. The interference of the church robbed valuable time from this genius and stunted his growth of ideas, to what extent we will never know.

Surely, much responsibility of keeping the human race ignorant and barefoot (poverty) goes to religion.

Strugatsky:
You are right about the Jewish influence in money lending/exchange in particular dominating during the Middle Ages. However, the actual "banking system" as we know it today was created in Italy in 1472 by the governing body of the city state of Siena. This bank was the "Monte dei Paschi di Siena" and is considered the oldest bank in the world and is still in operation. Note that this bank was not created or run by Jews. Even though, historically, and I agree with you, the Jews should be credited with the the original idea of money transactions, the exchange and lending of money that was the basis of the eventual evolution to a "institutionalized banking system".

Political will of the people.

hmmm. yes, good point there on the last sentence

Chimpanzees make and use spears out of long-stemmed plants. They haven't figured out the fire-hardening part - yet. How long have they been doing this? I have no idea, nor do I know if they learned this by watching humans, or if they figured it out as a way of extending their destructive reach on their own. So much we don't know.

Volitional rational behavior - good point. In some respects, it's a negative that we're social animals, as once irrational behavior like riots or wars begin, an unsettling number of humans choose to abandon rational behavior to maintain their position in the tribe.