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What is so AWESOME about the gulch

Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 1 month ago to Philosophy
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Hi Scott,

I want to tell you what is so amazing about the gulch. It is not only about giving people a voice. However, it may take me a bit of history to explain.

At the end of Rand’s life she was tired of arguing with fools, as were many geniuses including Newton and Gauss (both refused to publish for this reason). This encouraged a fortress mentality, which is perhaps best exemplified by the debate between open and closed Objectivism. Unfortunately, this resulted in a retrenchment much like the pythagoreans. As a result, Objectivists withdrew to their ivory tower and refused to engage with anyone who was not anointed by the denizens of O land. This excluded and intimidated many who were interested in Objectivism and many people who could advance the study of Objectivism. As a result, Objectivism has stalled. Overall Objectivism has not made the progress it should have in the last 20 years, either in scholarship or in attracting people to its principles.

You have created a site that bridges, the academic and the “real world”, you have created a site that opens scholarship to those that are not anointed, you have created the breakthrough that will allow objectivism to advance in the world. That is amazing and will earn you a place in the history of philosophical scholarship. Unfortunately, this will require tolerating a lot of conservatives, libertarians, and some socialists, who do not understand or want to undermine Objectivism. However, your site allows the wheat to sift through the chaff.

Your journey has included trying to convert the most complex, intellectual novel into a movie. You have received unwarranted criticism from both the ivory tower O’s and the socialists. Unfortunately, the criticism from both sides was expected. Despite this you and JA and Harmon and my daughter brought tens of thousands if not millions to the ideas of Rand. These people are not O’s, but many are willing or interested in learning.

In order to complete your journey you and us will have to deal with many on the left and the religious right and we will not always agree, however the value of staying the course will be enormous for both Objectivism, the world, and your place in history.


All Comments


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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    reminds me of Morris Massey's psychological theories
    about value system formation in the early years
    (like ages 5 to 15), with a "significant emotional event"
    required to change the person's value system.

    I like your phrase "the age of reason." . they say
    that's around age 6, but I wonder. -- j

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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Herb, wasn't the inane world the drugged-out 60s?
    we have graduated to insane;;; I agree.

    my first wife and I used to go to a theater nearby
    called the "tap house" where we would munch on
    nachos and drink long island teas and watch silly
    movies -- with a cult movie at midnight like "Rocky
    Horror" . . . your idea would be soooooo much more fun!!! -- j

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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes! . intelligent, kind-natured people with a sense
    of humor and a joy of life which is healthy . . . . not a
    grousing about fairness and good intentions and the
    tearing-down of value to massage society into utopia.

    we love it, live it, and enjoy others doing the same!!! -- j

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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    and new views, and new analogies, applications to
    situations, corollaries, etc. -- j

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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I think you are into something. I have wondered about all this political correctness preoccupation.
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  • Posted by ewv 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, there are a number of assertions in the post that are simply not true and obviously worded in an insulting polemical manner. It is not "history". Whatever the future of gg, success does not come from such an approach.

    ARI has not refused discussion with "anyone who was not anointed by the denizens of O land. "Objectivism'" is the name given by Ayn Rand to her own philosophy as she expressed and explained it, not whatever anyone else wants to say it is as they mangle it into eclecticism. ARI has not refused discussion or turned people away trying to understand Ayn Rand's philosophy, but it does not condone or help spread the confusion of subjective "open" Objectivism.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 1 month ago
    any bridge of this quality and scope deserves the
    utmost in appreciation and respect. . Scott and Dale and
    everyone who contributes to this forum, Thank You!!! -- john

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  • Posted by $ Genez 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Our society today is stuck in "adolescence" when it comes to emotional maturity. That's why so many people are so easily "offended". They haven't grown up and learned how to take things with a grain of salt or roll with the punches. they only feel and expect others to feel with them. Often since it's a lot of work to feel, they don't work very hard and expect others to help meet their needs so they don't "feel" so distressed due to lack of food, basic services and so on..
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  • Posted by $ Genez 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, my parents encouraged the reading of the book and I even found a philosophy professor in college to discuss it with.. Then, nothing... For many years. I'm not on a ton and don't comment a lot but definitely enjoy it every time. Being able to find people who understand the concepts of individuals, true liberty and so on, is very refreshing!
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  • Posted by Ibecame 10 years, 1 month ago
    Great posting. What you wrote pretty much says it all.
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  • Posted by gcarl615 10 years, 1 month ago
    This small discertation and comments confirms to me that my choice to join was sound. I have read everything AR has written that I can find. I have spent many hours reflecting on those writings and sometimes found myself wondering if I just wasn't smart enough to grasp it all. This site helps me understand that I am not the only one who thought that way. Thank you for this site.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Wiggy, I think ARI has been sidetracked by the idea of closed objectivism. I think Yaron Brook is doing some nice work, but I have not seen that he has added much to the scholarship of objectivism. And most of the new scholarship in Objectivism has been fairly recent IMHO.
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  • Posted by JCLanier 10 years, 1 month ago
    db:
    A just tribute.

    "Because the sight of an achievement was the greatest gift a human could offer to others"-A. Rand

    Yes, the endeavors of Scott and others with him, have shown us that it can be done. The creation of the Gulch has offered a live and functioning sanctuary, if you will, to all who seek the knowledge of Objectivism.

    "It was the greatest sensation of existence: not to trust, but to know."-A. Rand

    The Gulch has offered me the reality of "knowing" there are others that follow and seek out the philosophy of Objectivism. I do not have to "trust" that it is alive. I know it.

    I thank you all.

    JC
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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree completely. I remember in college first reading AS (I was lost to the world for the three days it took). I am pretty tired of discussing things with most people today. Its just a waste of time it seems. But on this forum, things are different. Its uplifting and exciting really. Reaffirms my desire to interact with people actually.
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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
    I am thinking that there are too many people who just "feel" instead of "think" today, and the underlying nature of that approach to life (reverting to animal nature) is resulting in the socialist tendencies that are being followed today. I think socialism as a philosophy has been pretty much debunked at this point (just look at south america, greece, and russia), BUT emotionally people seem to still ebrace its tenets
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years, 1 month ago
    dbh, you have discounted all of the promotion of Objectivism that has been done and is ongoing by the Ayn Rand Institute, have you not! I think this web site is completely worthwhile for many to voice opinions right or wrong, that is the right of free speech. Yaron Brook and his associates have done very well and you should have recognized them in your letter to Scott.
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  • Posted by autumnleaves 10 years, 1 month ago
    Finding this site while surfing the net, brings back the same feelings of excitement and awe, and love, I had when first reading Atlas. In 1963, my first reaction was, I can't believe what I am reading! This woman, AR , writing this beautiful story that is so true! I was fortunate to have attended some lectures taped by Ayn herself. Then O seemed to disappear from my life. Although I continued to reread Atlas there was no one to talk with. Long story short, Thank You for bringing this site to fruition...I love studying/learning every day!
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 10 years, 1 month ago
    The discussions and debates is what make the Gulch an adventure in learning. To understand Ayn Rands Objectivism you need this type of forum.
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    Posted by Esceptico 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    The problem is cognitive dissonance. We O's suffer from it too. For most people there are some beliefs are not amendable to change. In fact, most beliefs are not changeable.

    The most difficult beliefs for people to examine are those beliefs which have been
    (1) held for a long time,
    (2) adopted before age of reason, and
    (3) most often repeated.

    Which explains why it is impossible to have a conversation on the two subjects one should never discuss socially: Religious and political beliefs. Both of these belief sets are indoctrinated by parents, teachers, religious leaders, and other adults, almost from birth, many years before the age of reason, and they are the most often repeatedly “drummed” into them. People will kill based upon their beliefs, but will not examine whether the belief is true or false.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 1 month ago
    A great summation and overview.

    Jan, still thinking
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 1 month ago
    I appreciate the compliment--I think. But yes, Objectivism should open itself up to debate, and consideration of new evidence.
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    Posted by waytodude 10 years, 1 month ago
    After many years if thinking I was the crazy one, I found Rand and objectivism and learned I was not the only one there was another. Since I found the Gulch there's a lot more of us. I'm still studying Rand ' s work and still have a long road ahead to master this philosophy, however a road made even easier with your help and the help of all the other members of the Gulch. I would like to extend my thanks to all evolved in the Gulch.
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