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Barry Goldwater on Religion and Politics

Posted by dbhalling 10 years ago to Politics
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On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)


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  • -3
    Posted by barwick11 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I love it, he brings up a ton of examples, and what does he get for it? His post gets downvoted...

    This community is becoming more toxic by the day.
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  • -1
    Posted by barwick11 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Are you seriously that...

    I just shake my head at the ignorant things I've heard you say today. Wake up and learn your history. If you have never heard of William Wilberforce, then I forgive you for your statement.

    If you have, then I blame your absolutely hypocritical claim to be "objective". You aren't interested in facts, or learning, you're interested in furthering your own preconceived agenda.

    What are you, a climate scientist? A liberal maybe?
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  • -3
    Posted by barwick11 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Don't you love these radical atheists? There's some good guys on here, but there's a sizable chunk that just downvote your stuff because they disagree with it and your DATA that you just showed them contradicts their atheism. Real "objectivist" of them.
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  • -1
    Posted by barwick11 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Kittyhawk, don't you love these guys? You post a link that answers their questions, and a few of the militant atheists on here down-vote your post. I brought it back to 1 for you...
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  • Posted by barwick11 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    You know what? I'm sick of this. I'm sick of your atheist crap, I'm sick of all of you whining and complaining about what God says, and being so COMPLETELY hypocritical, claiming to be objective, but then utterly refusing to look at the facts because it is opposite to what you PRECONCEIVE to be true, before you were exposed to those facts.

    Not every person on this board, but a solid chunk of it is a bunch of complete hypocrites, and I'm sick of it. I'm tired of dealing with you, your stupid straw man arguments that LIBERALS use all the time, claiming somehow we're even REMOTELY related to the most disgusting religion on this planet, Islam. YOU are a liar, that is what you are. I'm sick of it.

    ALL I have done on this board is explain what the historical Christian faith has adhered to for thousands of years, and what Judaism has taught for thousands of years before that. A system of beliefs and teachings that have repeatedly proven themselves time and time again for thousands of years, in the exact situations we've talked about. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge that fact because it disagrees with your world view.

    Know what, I'm done. I'm done dealing with people like you. If you truly are stupid enough to believe that Christianity is in ANY way even remotely like that disgusting religion of Islam, AND that four other people on this board are ignorant enough to "thumbs up" your crap, and consequently thumbs down mine, then fine. You can rot in your own filth. You lying hypocrite. I'm out of here. Don't say I didn't warn you.
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  • Posted by Fountainhead24 10 years ago
    β€œExtremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
    He put the Constitution before the Bible
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  • Posted by ArLyneDiamond1961 10 years ago
    I was active in Barry Goldwater's campaign when I lived in Los Angeles - and these words sound just like the man I knew. Do not throw religion in his face and let it be a private relationship each person has (or doesn't have) with his beliefs. He was a humanist in the finest sense of that word.

    ArLyne Diamond, Ph.D.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Is this study supposedly showing that those who do not have sex before marriage (i.e. virgins) are less likely to get divorced from this century? Seriously, how did they find these people?
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Show me some evidence I can test and replicate. Being in awe of, finding beauty in, and being amazed by the complexity of the universe and nature is what drives the mind and effort of men to experiment and discover the science that stands behind all of that. And by providing the results and repeatable proofs of their work to the rest of us, enables us to improve the lot of each of us and all men so that in the last century or so, we've increased our life spans from some 30 to 40 years to over 70, with less disease and starvation than at any other time.
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  • -1
    Posted by barwick11 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh no, please don't hide my posts, what EVER would I do? Sigh...

    so objectivist of you, to ignore facts that contradict your PREconceptions... not that you would have those, since you only look at things objectively, right?
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    You are welcome to question the studies. Please post your observations. The ones I looked at were peer-reviewed studies that appeared to have covered their bases, but that is not to say I am a field expert.


    There is no question that commitment plays a big role, but commitment to what in particular? And how does one see that commitment playing out and over what time frame? Do both partners have the same goals and do they both agree on the basics of how to get there? Are you willing to allow for your partner's idiosyncrasies? Can you agree on financial wants and needs and stay within your means? Do you have the same goals regarding children and their upbringing? Do you both support the other in things that are important to them? Most importantly, do you have a framework for working out all of the above?
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    So some founders were christians. So what? What does this have to do with the success of the US or England? Nazi Germany was very religious...you'll say "not real christians", which is a lame no true scottsman argument. Ethiopia, huh?
    The rest are communist revolutions, which happen to also be anti-religion. This is a wholly inadequate and inappropriate argument to assert 1) that this is the only was a non-religious country can succeed, and 2) that the US therefore succeeded based on christianity. Do you write for the Watchtower?

    How about Iran? This country was refounded on a religious revolution. Muslims are real believers. Some will kill themselves for their beliefs. Oh yes, that is the wrong religion...mine is the right one...

    I don't understand why you think Ayn Rand advocates would support any of this.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    ...but here comes you telling us all what to do about premarital sex and homosexuality.

    How would you expect a site filled with Objectivists and thinking people to respond to such nonsense.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    It is precisely this line of nonsense that alienates mainstream people and makes republican candidates un-electable.

    You guys should team up with the muslims and split an area. They'll govern their half with sharia law, and you guys can govern with christian law. It will be great. The wealthy muslims can "vacation" in your country and drink, and you can collaborate on how to torture people who don't obey.

    The rest of us can objectively analyze, discuss and socially evolve, and be well rid of unnecessary dogma.

    The nonsense about "stumbling in the dark" is based on the assumption that it is actually dark and that YOU know where the light is. It is dim, not dark, and the light from science gets brighter all the time. The church would be pleased to keep thinking the sun revolves around the earth. It wasn't god that explained that it doesn't.
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  • Posted by 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I suspect the studies failed to control for a number of factors. I knew that I would stay with my wife before I was married (short of her going crazy - or crazer). It is about whether you make an intellectual commitment or your crossing your fingers as you enter into the agreement (not the vows)
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