you no longer can hold your own values in America

Posted by MaxCasey 10 years, 6 months ago to News
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you are no longer able to chose to exercise your values in America. You now run the risk of being forced to become a hypocrite by the government. Whether you agree with gay marriage or not, this baker should not be forced to work for people he chooses not too.


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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Religous freedom applies to churches and one's person life. It does not give one the right to violate government regulations.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually no, the inalianble rights are detailed in the Bill of Rights (the first ten Amendments). The 9th Amendment also says the list should not be considered complete, and other rights exist which were not listed.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Potentially, it could be. But that's part of a person's private life, so the governing has no business regulating it. Honestly, I don't understand why you people have so much trouble distinguishing between private life and public accommodations.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, those things are caused by the war on poverty and the war on drugs. They are not caused by the Civil Rights Act.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Those "political" reasons would have a direct impact upon immigrants that the owner was concerned about if Romney was elected. Thus, he wasn't going to "help" by providing a place within witch evil (in his mind) will occur.

    So, tell me, what evil is projected by selling a wedding cake?
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Every government in the history of mankind has had economic regulations. If simply creating regulations is all that it takes for a government to be classified as fascist, then there has never been a non-fascist government. Your definition is flawed.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary."
    - James Madison
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    after the civil rights act passed, blacks completing a high school degree have significantly gone down, out of wedlock births have skyrocketed, and the poverty rate among blacks has also skyrocketed compared to other races.
    I completely agree with you that race should not be a factor in associating with an individual but that's lots of negatives, maph.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree-socially. Legally is an entirely different matter. wasn't the mexican restaurant owner a bigot? he refused to serve someone for political reasons. it is valid to you for subjective reasons
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is America. Bigotry isn't tolerated regardless of your anecdotal "experience."
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    private business. PRIVATE. The bakers are not publicly traded, "lunch counters in the south."
    This concept only worked with the local government as complicit. People were bullied to comply with such evil and the government did not enforce property rights. ex: I am a business owner in the south. I see an opportunity for business to catering to a group for whatever reason. My neighbors attempt to "chill" me from extending a profitable business concept in my local market, by vandalism or other means. The means are all force and law enforcement does not protect my rights. That is exactly what went on in the south. Private businesses turn down business everyday of the week. It's none of your business or mine why.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What's best for business should not always be the top concern. There are always non-economic factors to consider as well.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Considering racism was worse before the Civil Rights Act was passed, I'm gonna have to say that's a faulty premise. Associating with someone causes resentment to go down, not up.

    And Ayn Rand's philosophy also said the only way to violate someone's rights was through physical force, which is simply untrue. That's the flaw.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Question asked: "What kind of self esteem does a person have when they force a person to accept their contract unwillingly?"

    Nobody "forced" the baker to go into business and serve to the public. If he were a baker at a country club that had a limited membership the circumstances might be different, but he opened to all of the public just like the lunch counters in the South did. Discrimination in America is a bad thing.

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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    harm to their reputation in their political position of gays wanting to hijack (their interpretation) of marriage. You are happily willing to control my rights. I take that as a threat. Whether we agree on which rights are more important is beside the point. The Constitution laid out rights well and also were clear that other rights were not enumerated but valid, however, they did NOT advocate that force was mechanism for extending a right. You should not be allowed to force someone at the point of a gun to perform the task of making a cake for someone they do not wish to make a cake for. What kind of self esteem does a person have when they force a person to accept their contract unwillingly? A false sense of esteem. Courage here would be to find a cake maker that willingly contracts and use your first amendment right to make clear to all and sundry who wasn't willing to make you a cake. But that was not the path the couple chose. they chose a path that included ruining a business and bringing harmful threats and violence to the bakers. and they demanded compensation above and beyond what is reasonable. and they are smug and happy over their "victory" and extortion. sad day for everyone, if you ask me.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually I did comment about restaurants. I pointed out that the Romney bunch and the right in general are advocating breaking up families with deportations and prison terms. The fact I that to accommodate Romney's bunch is detrimental to their real position in the world.

    Now, explain what harm the baker suffers selling a cake?
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I see political harm in the govt telling me who to associate with. My perception is logical. You react to the Romney example. hmmm. you are very content with controlling others to keep you "happy." I am content with take your hand out of my pocket and leave me alone.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    BTW Mimi you might do better to bring up facts rather than speculate. In FACT many brutal Christians have done many bad things to humanity over the years and some continue.

    Hiraghm has tried to paint me as an atheist and pagan among other things. Why don't you jump on him for his nasty "guilt by association" efforts? And he freely admits his bigotry against gays as part of his religion. That isn't "painting" him.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nope. In fact, "Fred Phelps and his small congregation provide WBC's funding; the group neither solicits nor accepts outside donations. In addition to this income, the church makes money by winning or settling civil lawsuits involving the church. "

    Get the full report at: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/in...
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    actually, Max brought up morality, but couched in the larger umbrella of "right." you want to trample on one's right to "protect" another's. the only rights which should be enforced are those which are applied to every individual. A group does not have rights.
    I gave two possible harms as examples from the bakers' point of view. I pointed out in two other examples of where restaurants refused to accommodate a campaign for political reasons and you haven't commented on either.
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh you don’t want to equate the Westboro Church to christians in general. I think you will find those nut jobs are really a calculated liberal offense. They show up to protest at Republican events. They rose to fame showing up at military funerals denouncing gays at the height of the push to allow gays into the military, during the final years of Bush’s presidency. Anybody can see they advocate open-hate policies, but what is truly difficult to process is the knowledge of what groups have truly benefitting the most from their protests. I would love for someone to do an audit of their books to find out who are their financial backers. I think the world would be shocked to learn they probably are getting their money from Progressives. Me? Not so much. Afterall, tarnishing christians or conservatives using plants is not a new method of propaganda. This time, liberals didn’t need to hire plants, they just promoted loons. I mean, isn’t that what you are doing? Trying the ole’ guilt-by-association spiel?
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But Hiraghm, gays are NOT: "willing to pretend that the mentally ill are not ill."

    Even if they were would you deny someone with cancer and think they were "immoral" for getting sick? What about someone injured in an accident not of their fault? Or is it only the "sickness" of same sex couples you are bigoted against because of your religion?

    How "Christian" of you to work so hard to run down the (alleged) sick.

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  • Posted by Boborobdos 10 years, 6 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But your version of "morality" is only working one way... In favor of the baker.

    The other version is that same sex couples should be treated as any other couples thus insuring harmony in the society where religious bigotry isn't tolerated.
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