I understand.. -- j

I recognize that approach, but throwing out liberty we are born with and guaranteed by the constitution negates the advertised goal and exposes the real one: greater power and wealth for the looters who wrap themselves in the American flag, Christianity, and any other historically successful facade to disguise the real objectives.
They take every opportunity to make promises to extend their power, and then after the election they turn their backs on the people they represent, send constituents' children to die in contrived wars, and ignore their oaths of office. These men and women are traitors and murderers, and deserve the same fate as the worst of the convicted Nazis.
If they want me to believe their goals, they must use legal methods under the limitations of the constitution. They haven't done this in several generations.

p.p.s. please understand that there really are good,
well-intentioned people who believe, deep down
inside, that we should export freedom and plant
the seeds of representative democracy across the
face of the world, because it is right. . these may not
have been the actual motivations for attacking
Afghanistan and Iraq, but many -- including many
who lost their lives -- thought so. . and think so.

stopping u.s. enemies before they reach our shores
is the other real, well-intentioned rationale. . since we
have "decided" to discard our national devotion to
deterrence, this has new importance. -- j

I'm sorry, John

ok. -- j

p.s. whimper.

None of which is justification for an invasion. The neo-cons wanted to invade, they lied about the reason, they invaded and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, and many US soldiers, too.
I am very sorry about your brother-in-law and others who died or were injured in an action that was nothing more than war for profit and power.

these are ours;;; theirs went to Syria and we have
proof. . well, some didn't go to Syria, cuz they stayed
behind and killed my brother-in-law. . in Iraq. -- j

Would these be the same as the "WMD's" that were claimed as proof against Iraq?