Why Libertarianism Struggles and How It Could Succeed

Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 4 months ago to Government
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A few weeks ago I wrote a post I'm Not Ready for the Gulch and stopped reading this website regularly. http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/21... Thank you to those who encouraged me to go live life prosperously in my real or virtual gulch.

A few people pointed out it was a poor choice of words for me to say the AS strikers “gave up”. I should have said “gave up on the looters' world.” As I said in the post, I'm where Dagny was most of the book, still wanting to be part of the world and solve its problems. I can't remember her words, but I thought even she said something like "how can they give up when the world needs their help?"

I enthusiastically support those who “give up” and work on building a seastead or micronation in a remote location, e.g. a gulch, a remote arctic area, under water, or in outer space.

So many people identify as “social liberal, fiscal conservative”, it borders on being a cliché. So why the heck isn't there a mainstream political party representing libertarian views!?

I suspect it's because most outspoken libertarians are extremists and/or mean-spirited. They focus on how $hitty things are and appear long for an AS-style apocalypse that paves the way for a better world. I can't actually know what people long for, but I know Rand fans have more than our share of dickishness.

When I came back and read comments to my post, most were positive, but someone said he/she would spit and turn away in condemnation of me. This is how you respond toward someone working in small ways for libertarian causes? It's no wonder we struggle “to win friends and influence people” as it were.

I hope the mean-spirited and extremist are just a vocal minority. If a startup housed on a ship incubator, initially for immigration/visa reasons, becomes the next Facebook, they can build a fixed physical platform and hire lobbyists to get other nation states to leave them alone. If the organization that manages it is committed to respecting a US-style Constitution established by the residents and not widely interpreting it away, they'll have a veritable libertarian micro-republic in my lifetime, IF THEY CAN KEEP IT.

For it to work, every one who believes in the right to be let alone must be your friend.


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  • Posted by Wonky 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't mean the "TEA Party" in terms of current politicians or as intentionally distorted and defamed by the mainstream media, I mean an actual TEA "party". As in the grassroots "parties", where people actually gather to discuss the constitution, the republic, the founding fathers' intentions, capitalism, and, most importantly, how to restore/repair it all. I'm not sure I've seen/read a believable account of what actually goes on at these parties other than from Andrew Breitbart. If he is (was, rather) to be believed, they are exactly the place to be to "find these libertarians and objectivists to interact with in person".
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah...any way to box us into a corner so they can have a poke at our chests. I'll obia and ist whoever I want so stop trying to force shit down my throat. That's the point I'm at. blaht.
    I'm in deep hatred of common core....trying to get other to see how it's wrong is a task that wears me thin.... but it really boils down to public schools need to stop and start over....just because it's been done this way for so long does not mean it's the best way. Teachers are beholden to the pensions and can't see the forest for the trees. Disheartening to say the least.
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  • Posted by Wonky 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My parents are coming along and my inlaws are better people than I gave them credit for.

    Sadly, I made the very difficult decision to "unfriend" my (gay activist) older brother on Facebook. Very painful (whoa oh oh). I voted for gay marriage in my state and have enough gay friends that I won't let him keep beating on me (or anyone else) with the "homophobe" club (which seems bigger than the "racist" club these days).

    How are you handling the Common Core crap?
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "fit in".. sigh. That's the last thing I'm worried about. It's the gov we need to take over...not the TEA party. I think the main area of difference between us and the tea party is the staunch religious aspect.... I think it over shadows their reason at times...and the idea to live and let live. Other than that we have a ton of common ground. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.
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  • Posted by Wonky 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Maybe we should all crash a Tea Party and see if we fit in... if not, we could just take over.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    lol....it was pure coincidence. I haven't been in much...family in town...busy busy...I just HAPPENED to see the oh whoa whoa part at the beginning and read the whole thing....only to find mention of my name in praises. :) I was pleasantly surprised. Which is always a good thing. Where have you been? Convince your family of anything yet?
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  • Posted by Wonky 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Do you read every comment on the site? How did you catch me praising you so fast? Did you write up a Gulch spidering engine that alerts you when your name is mentioned? If not, I can write one for you... I'll charge you a fortune though.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Where do you find these libertarians and objectivists to interact with in person to even be able to form an opinion about whether they come off as being judgmental. I spend most of my day surrounded by liberals, or at best extremely (purposely) ill informed folks. I would LOVE to find ANY one who expresses their opinion openly and with conviction. If it's a rational opinion then yes it is judgmental....what is wrong with judging? You can't form an opinion without it. In fact you just did it yourself by calling them judgemental. You judged. And good for you for doing it. :)
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  • Posted by Wonky 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Some of us have taken to saying "whoa oh oh", or some variant whenever we use the word "feel". I'm pretty sure that many of us who do privately smile at the inside joke. It's hard not to appear arrogant to a person who thinks feelings trump reason.

    I often "feel" that people are arrogant and even fire off stupid comments before I settle down and see that they are right. In my opinion, humility is the correct short term response to the "feeling" that someone is arrogant. Without a volitional effort to ascertain whether or not someone is correct where you are incorrect, you can never be certain that your feeling that they are arrogant isn't actually the shame you feel at being wrong or the feeling that it's not fair that someone (other than yourself) can know everything and/or be right all of the time.

    My favorite example is Hermione Granger from the Harry Potter novels. At one point, Snape publicly calls her an "insufferable know-it-all". She is nothing if not that, and that is what I love about her character.

    At one point, I felt that LetsShrug was arrogant. She schooled me. I fought. She schooled me some more. I examined my "feelings", decided she was spot on and irrefutable, and ended up admiring the hell out of her. In the long run, this is how it should be - even with children (and liberals).
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  • Posted by peterchunt 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am not certain it is arrogance as using the facts and knowing your right. I tried arguing with a Democrat, and found that to be a waste of my time. She accused me of thinking I was right (which of course if you use the facts, how could you be wrong) while she used the word “I think”. I finally gave up on her, as arguing with her was like punching a pillow. I can’t speak for Libertarians, but Objectivists are rational beings.
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  • Posted by lapinjapan 11 years, 4 months ago
    The Gulch wasn't a compound. It was a demonstration community where people were free to come and go, however, they all shared the view that they would no longer fund Dystopia. Each had their own moment of understanding that what you feed grows and that "wishing don't make it so".
    I don't have to give up the life I have to be part of a meaningful community of visionaries dedicated to sorting out how the world works when you stop ignoring human tribalism and self-interest and allow man's creative energies to flourish.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 11 years, 4 months ago
    I am a recent visitor to the Gulch. As a result, I am not aware of what has been written previously, but that has never stopped me from adding my two cents worth in the past. I have been a Randoid for longer than most of you have been alive. I have seen her philosophy move through over five decades and have found it to be the one thing that gets me back on track when I need to stay rational and use my brain. It is not, however the perfect solution to all of life's problems, and in my opinion, is particularly wanting when it comes to personal relationships. Many Objectivists and/or Libertarians project a certain arrogance that comes from a feeling (there's a naughty word) of superiority because they have been enlightened with rationality that is not exhibited by others. I think it creates in many persons an overly judgmental attitude. Has anyone had the same experience?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Millions of Americans can't lay up a brick wall, write a tv script, drive a semi, grow grapes, or make a pencil.
    Doesn't mean the minority who knew how to do each were unpopular.

    FYI, this ex-bricklayer, Walmart drone knows about five or six programming languages, not including interpreted web scripting languages.

    Specialization is for insects.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 4 months ago
    "For it to work, every one who believes in the right to be let alone must be your friend."

    The sociology of dominant cultures explains why unpopular minorities made the Greek Golden Age, the Renaissance, and the Industrial Revolution. Even today, millions of Americans are incapable of writing code in any computer programming language, yet we enjoy an informatic revolution.
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