Ha!... I had a skinny, male, chain smoker for a pushy boss once... I sent him an email (since asking him the question in person twice didn't result in an answer)...he printed a copy of the email, that ended with, "...this is my third time asking this question" and said I had a bad attitude. My response? "You've added the wrong inflection... see that smiley face on the end there?" Needless to say I ended up having to file a grievance against him where I referenced exhibits A, B, C of unnecessary confrontations and intimidation from him before I could get off his "team". (Ironically his name was Tim.)

Damaged and/or evil people, that's who. I can't think of any other explanation.

I have worked in positions where I could have thrown my weight around just by being in the position I held. I don't last in such positions. I feel very uncomfortable even being seen as somebody having authority over the actions of others. I like, and have been, an authority of technical subject matter and that's fine. "Here's the science, here's the facts. Do with it what you like." But, the use of force to manipulate makes me want to puke (kind of like in Clockwork Orange...) And, it seems that there are two physical types who love to boss people around: fat, mushy-butt softies and cops on roids - and not much else. Haha...

You are assuming my son was anything but courteous in his questioning. He asked 'why do I have to sign this', politely. He was not rude, loud, or aggressive in any way. He did not deserve to get yelled at and ordered to do something without explanation. Do you tell your kids it's okay to sign a blank piece of paper, especially without a copy of it being offered?
It's overkill and overreaching and our children are being conditioned to accept it and that anything someone authority says should not be questioned.
He was NOT 'involved' and he was not a witness to what happened. He was a passenger on a school bus that some kid ran into with a pickup truck...low impact. No one was hurt.
If the cop had been courteous in return and explained, or offered a copy of what he was signing...etc I wouldn't be in such a tizzy about it. Being a tyrant on a bus with 16 kids isn't excusable. I don't care WHO it is that's doing it.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be a jerk. You're obviously very close to the situation - and I'm sure I would be pretty worked up if that all happened to me.

And I'm only responding because you ended with an open challenge (for "clarity" I generously assume.)

But your son was not only a witness, he was INVOLVED in the accident. He was a passenger on the vehicle that was struck. Reports have to be made.

The officer's request was reasonable ON ITS FACE. It was simply a list circulated to identify everyone on the bus.

The indignation I refer to is your son's refusal to provide relevant information requested in a reasonable manner.

As for all the rest - I am silent. I wasn't there. I've seen cops act like tin-horn gods and I've seen John Q. Public bristle at the slightest ascertion of authority.

I must say though - and I swear I'm not trying to inflame this discussion - but I would find it telling if you could not permit me this very reasonable and limited point.

Uhhm, OK, just wonderin' but...
What exactly is wrong with identifying yourself as a witness to an accident?

What is the abuse in expecting people to identify themselves when they are clearly a witness to an accident? Perhaps even a future claimant.

I'm not talking abut what came after - I'm just calling out the initial indignant reaction to - what I consider to be - a very reasonable request?

Who said they 'witnessed' ANYthing? Most had their noses in their phones...my son was playing chess on his phone..he saw nothing. They are not adults. Who, besides the cop was being 'indignant'? Asking a question isn't being indignant. And the 'request' was NOT clearly stated with a reason for the 'request'. And it wasn't a 'request', it was a demand.
They couldn't get off the bus....they were held there..and demanded to do things without cause or reason. You're okay with this?

Yet another reason I don't subject my children (or my wife) to public or private schools. Homeschool for us.

If it wasn't such a nightmare in our society to not have one, I would never have gotten them a socialist security number when they were born, maybe they could just be transparent to the Feds.

Sounds fun :) Playing pool is always fun... I prefer that over tending bar...with or without a Santa hat. Take pictures lol

So far my holidays are not going *to* far... :) I love it when things just happen! LOL I think they are going just about as expected... I have a party to attend Saturday night and I will be tending bar while wearing a Santa hat for my host who really appreciates my help because it frees him up for playing more pool. I enjoy it because it provides opportunity to speak to almost everyone at the party...
My little lake froze over on Thanksgiving day... A little early this year... Brrrrrr... so much for global warming...
Happy Holidays,
O.A.

And Opies a lib. Up is down.

Yes, I did...very laid back, just the way I like it. Got my tree and decor up too. How are your holidays going to far? Frozen yet?

How does a page of signatures cover their butts for ANYthing... that's what I don't get.. I think it was done entirely to intimate....to show who's boss. Sit down and shut up!

Yeah...and it seems everybody wants "power", or desire to intimidate, or some damned thing I don't understand. Who treats people like this and thinks it's a good thing. arg

Hello cp256,
True enough. Andy Griffith demonstrated in his later years that in many ways he was no Andy Taylor...
O.A.

Hello LS,
Indeed.
Did you have a good Thanksgiving?

You're absolutely right, and I agree... I was "merely" trying to point out the perspective that those bullies were coming from which might possibly EXPLAIN, NOT justify, their behavior.

I have a strong belief that many people employed by police departments are TOO aggressive to be safe and effective for the people they're allegedly protecting!

As for how does having them sign.. etc.. stop a future lawsuit? It doesn't, but it covers their butts if someone DOES launch a suit against them for any reason... real or frivolous.

Old saying: Tell me how you're going to measure me and I'll tell you how I'm going to behave...

I saw that in 34 years in "industry," and I think this is just the "public school and police force incarnation" of it.

See that's the new paradigm. People don't have to be cops as long as they are "officials". The TSA is the biggest example of this. One of our local school districts was sending "officials" to homeschoolers' homes to pester them a couple years ago. Didn't go very well for them, luckily. These types think they can go beyond the law as long as it's an official, while a cop (often) gets held to the standard they swore to uphold. The lines are getting blurred.

I was just thinking about this very think last night...how George Washington did NOT want to be President, but felt he HAD to. These are the kind of men we need. It's a cluster.

If you have not read "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces" By Radley Balko ISBN: 9781610392112 you need to. Frightening that the US is already a police state.

Thank you for sharing that. Good thinking.

Just a Devil's Ad...
Keep in mind that if all that waste and bureaucracy did NOT happen after the accident, just about everyone in the school and/or police department would have been at risk of lawsuits from parents who ARE morons... and they outnumber you, Let's...
:)

Thanks for this :)

So then answer the question with THAT.... we have a right to asks questions and expect a logical answer before we decide to comply or not. He flat out refused to give an answer or even acknowledge my son asked a question.... it's abuse of authority regardless if they have a good reason or not... AND how does having them sign their name and show their ID stop a future law suit? It provokes one if you ask me, especially after throwing in the yelling in the face business and scaring the whole bus. Idiots!

Agreed. People DO need to wake up..BIG TIME!

I'm proud of him, too. I'm glad both of you questioned them.

"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Leonardo da Vinci