We WILL find out how it works

Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 5 months ago to Government
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Vermont decided to take it a step further by setting up their very own single payer system.

The slogan of the program: Everybody in, nobody out.

For details: http://www.occupydemocrats.com/vermont-m...


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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why is asking a question such a negative? Ohhhhh, I get it! It challenges folks out of their nice little comfort zone and what their advocacy can result in.
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  • -1
    Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Argument to the extreme doesn't work Fred.

    But in fact one of the moral things Bush did do was get a bunch of antiHIV medication to Africa.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    define "politics" in this case?

    Depending on your definition of "politics", I'm not only willing to let others die for my politics, I'm willing to kill for them. And I'm willing to pay others to kill for my politics.

    The thing is, however, that when killing and dying are necessary solutions to a political problem, it's already too late to solve it.

    Consider the Confederate War; 600,000 dead, and that was just the military deaths. Half the reformed country economically destroyed and in depression. The other half followed within a decade.

    Or the French revolution, which resulted in greater and more widespread horrors than those for which the people were rebelling.

    Or WWII, even. The political difficulty with Japan and America wasn't resolved by killing. It was resolved by the defeat of Japan and imposition of American cultural values on the Japanese.

    The current war with Islam isn't a political battle, but an ideological one. Historically, ideological battles can't be resolved through politics.

    Arakal said, "Ideology *counts*. The only catch is - almost always when ideology counts, *it does the counting with a sword*."
    - Ideological Defeat, by Christopher Anvil
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  • Posted by airfredd22 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You have of course misconstrued what I actually said. unless you live in Africa, you probably can only help by giving money to charity. Furthermore, at no time did I accuse of of being immoral in any circumstances. I have no desire to judge you or anyone else on their morality. I'm discussing what is moral for me not for you. that's why god gave us a conscience, what atheist have, I have no idea.

    One additional point I want to make, in general I choose not to engage with people who can't help themselves and have to use vulgarities in debates. therefore, not because I'm a Puritan, but because I choose not to engage in that type of language, I will say good bye to you and wish you a Merry Christmas.

    Fred
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Individuals live in Africa too. We were both talking about individuals.

    So I can afford to feed a child in Africa while continuing to survive. The child is an individual, is in need, and I can help.

    Your first statement above said a moral human would save another individual. Then you immediately switched sides when that individual is in Africa. Don't play this bullshit game saying that helping those in Africa is just a simple choice. All morality is choice or it isn't morality.

    Am I immoral for not helping individuals in Africa or not? If I am, then you condemn almost the entire planet as being immoral. If I am moral though, you can't play the double standard that I have to help people to be a moral human, yet still be moral while not helping people.
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  • Posted by airfredd22 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, I am talking about individuals. For example should you step in help a drowning person if you are able to swim? You are not obligated to risk your life unless you choose to do so. Should you step in while a group of men are beating up another man. Same answer, should you feed a hungry child, I would say yes, if you can afford to do so without risking your own childs welfare. Could you do without a meal in order to feed a child, I'm sure you and I both could. But the example you gave is simply a matter of choice since you can't save the entire continent, does that mean you shouldn't try to find a way that makes sure the help gets to those in need. Ultimately, it's a personal choice and let your conscience be your guide.

    Fred
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I honestly don't know who it was that appeared before you. If you were the only one who saw it, you are the only one who can define it.

    How do you know you weren't hallucinating?
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If I refuse this health insurance program, they will fine me. If I refuse to pay this fine they will arrest me. If I refuse to be arrested, they will shoot me. Are you willing to kill others for your politics?

    If so I hope it is you personally who shows up at my door to be my executioner.
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So they made a mistake, and like children should be forced to do what is right.
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Am I morally obligated to? No
    If they want to die for my politics then yes I will let them. If they don't want to die for my politics I won't force them.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Are you trying to suggest that the standards for gays and for those injured are different?

    Kinda blasts equal treatment under law.
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  • Posted by plusaf 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Posted by Hiraghm 3 days, 1 hour ago
    "If you've seen any of my comments regarding homosexuality, or abortion, you would see objections with no root in or connection to religious belief.

    But, they are still dismissed by people who don't want to accept them, and can't argue against them. "

    >>>> Notice, Bob, that at no time or place in that post, did they even allude to WHERE they DID discover those beliefs, nor refute in any way that the beliefs were NOT, in any way, religion-based. But I was not surprised. It's the same answer I get when I ask ANYONE with that belief system "what's the basis of your 'conclusions' on the subject?" As if the idea that "marriage is only between people of different genders" sprang spontaneously into their minds one day, and not influenced by any external events or people.

    It's a form of personal unconsciousness, when you don't know why you believe what you believe or can't articulate it when someone asks.

    Whatever...
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly Fred: "That's not to say that there aren't some misguided Christians who can get a little pushy at times."

    It's absolutely none of your business if a same sex couple marries. It changes nothing in your life except that you use it to push your religion upon another.
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Would it be fair then, in your definition of faith to say that when we don't know something, we say that god did it? I think I may have misunderstood the definition part.

    When you say that"no answer is possible" do you mean not possible based on what we know now, or not possible and will never be possible?
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  • -2
    Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because there are so many in our society who have corrupted being selfish by their own interpretation that excludes the rest of society, without which they wouldn't have the ability to "decide."
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sounds reasonable to me. It makes a lot of sense actually. So why are you promoting forcing people to obey it? Why can't you get them to do it voluntarily?
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually marriage is a civil contract and lots of same sex couples are getting married here in America.

    Love makes a family, not your brutal god.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You can't kiss your own coccyx.
    You can't give birth to a unicycle.
    A badger can't play the violin.
    And without a representative of each of the two sexes, there cannot be a marriage.

    If it seems nonsense to you, it is merely your inability to comprehend at work.

    Yes, you've shown how very real your bigotry is.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So, no real answer, just nonsense from another christian.

    Oh well... So much for intelligent discussion after it is shown how the bigotry is real.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As OK as it is for you to kiss your own coccyx.
    As OK as it is for you to give birth to a unicycle.
    As OK as it is for a badger to play the violin.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Fred, there are plenty of religions that don't share the christian notion of "hell."

    Besides, only a very brutal god would attempt to scare folks into following him.
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