We WILL find out how it works

Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 5 months ago to Government
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Vermont decided to take it a step further by setting up their very own single payer system.

The slogan of the program: Everybody in, nobody out.

For details: http://www.occupydemocrats.com/vermont-m...


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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "YOU don't get to define me.

    But, you have said, "let them die" so it's clear you don't care about anyone but yourself and yours."

    Rest assured, 'You have defined you.' You've left no doubt in my mind at all.
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The major difference between ObamaCare, and RomneyCare, is that Romney didn't rewrite the basic healthcare insurance coverage requirements, and force the insurance community into oblivion.

    Under ObamaCare, even a 60 year old flaming homosexual has to have maternity benefits, as well as birth control coverage. Insanity....
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, and no.

    The beginning years that have federal funding will fall on every American taxpayer.

    And there is always the possibility that the federal funding can be extended by Congress....
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  • -2
    Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Don't you think it's good for the individual to remain productive and healthy? Being sick is so yucky.

    So it's win win for the individual and society.
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I didn't mean to be curt. I'm sorry.

    I would place the morality issue first, but that's just my preference and maybe, if you would be so kind, you could talk to me about it.

    Your argument that it is good for society means that you think the benefit of society is more important than what's good for the individual.
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  • -1
    Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    According to you.

    According to WHO and pretty much anything else I've seen they are on par. You haven't shown anything different except a propaganda blast from a Batista era sibling.
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  • -1
    Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are correct. I have a little trouble imagining Ayn Rand allowing someone to die simply because they couldn't afford health care.

    Was she moral without religion?
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  • -1
    Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hiraghm apparently believes that without his god it's impossible to be "moral." Watch: "it is both one's "right" and perfectly moral for one to walk down the street raping women at random,..."

    Like I said before... "Morality" has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's activities. Social contracts and laws are what governs that. There ain't no "morality" in a 15 mph speed limit in a school zone. It's simply a fact that things are much safer for the kids when drivers slow down. As a society we've agreed to do that.

    If you wanna see what religion does to governments go to one of those Muslum countries.

    Simple: The United States government won't establish any religion.

    Oh, and don't forget Ayn Rand was an atheist.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    They simply renew the budget every year.

    Oh, and I can understand that we don't need such a standing army as we used to. But that also means that in today's world we would have to implement a draft. Oops. It would also mean that they would have to be trained and in today's world an incident could be over before that can happen.

    So, we still need a standing army. Let's let them pick the weapons instead of politicians and their pork barrel efforts though.
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  • -1
    Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nope, didn't say that. When you suggested that military doctors weren't as good as any others I disagreed with you and gave you an example.

    The doctors at Shrine Hospitals (that don't charge patients for treatment) are among the best in the world, yet they aren't money grubbing entramanures sucking what they can get from the public.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Bullying? The intimidation of others for one's own pleasure? Didn't even consider the topic.

    Without God to provide an objective standard of morality, the only standard of morality is that which one has the power to do, and which gives one pleasure to do. The only limitation on said power is to encounter someone with greater power.

    For example, under this postulate (in spite of your attempts at mischaracterization), it is both one's "right" and perfectly moral for one to walk down the street raping women at random, until one encounters either a woman or a man more powerful than oneself with the desire to stop one from doing it. Then it remains moral, but one loses the right to do it.

    Because without God to provide an objective standard of morality.... "moral" is just a matter of opinion. Even Ayn Rand's definition. (although I tend to favor Heinlein's definition).

    I am tired and finished trying to explain the obvious to the willfully obtuse.

    G'night, troll.
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  • Posted by DaveM49 11 years, 5 months ago
    Vermont appears in many ways to be an excellent state for shruggers. Much of its legal code is solidly skewed toward "mind your own business". I'm rather surprised to see this measure enacted there.

    "The program will be fully operational by 2017, and will be funded through Medicare, Medicaid, federal money for the ACA given to Vermont, and a slight increase in taxes. In exchange, there will be no more premiums, deductibles, copay’s, hospital bills or anything else aimed at making insurance companies a profit. Further, all hospitals and healthcare providers will now be nonprofit."

    Sounds like looting to me, albeit compartmentalization of what is already mandated on a national scale. It will likely serve an excellent purpose in that the results of the "experiment" will be obvious, as they will be contained within the state of Vermont. Whether politicians will acknowledge this remains to be seen. No doubt any success with be shouted from the mountaintops. Failures....who knows?

    I wonder if the collapse of The Old Man Of The Mountain was a "sign".
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  • Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ah, so now you say that those who can't afford health care are some kind of inferior? To what? You?

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  • Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No need. We still don't have a state religion so you can make no claims that any of our laws are based upon religion.

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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hawaii has never been a part of Oklahoma, or Oklahoma City. A road there or clean water there benefits me not at all.

    **"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; **

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;" - U.S. Constitution, article 1, section 8.


    I surrounded the relevant section with asterisks.
    The Founding Fathers did not want there to be a standing army; we were, however, to have a standing navy, which means a standing marine corps for those military functions necessary in situations short of actual land warfare.

    There are historical reasons for this provision.
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  • -1
    Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thank you for telling us how you rationalize bullying. I believe that to be an interesting insight.
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  • -2
    Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    OK, I can follow orders, but I don't see where it's going...

    You are "correct when I say the difference between me and you is that you think I'm morally obligated to save a fellow human if it is within my capacity to do so."

    Of course it's patently false. It's better for society if folks can stay in the workforce and don't contaminate others with disease. It isn't a question of "morality." It's just good business for a society to treat medical issues for everyone early.

    "Morality" is a secondary issue at best but so many seem to think they have the be all and end all in their corner of the world with their version...


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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That I am not having any trouble keeping anything straight. Would you prefer I misquote the Founding Fathers for the sake of a false consistency?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But we are not doing it on our own. As I said, you keep referring to the socialist paradises and their "universal health care".

    I am using socialist to refer to scumbags that wish to enslave men one to another for the benefit of the inferior of spirit, at the expense of the superior in spirit (for want of better, concise terms).
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are correct, America has no state religion. This has nothing to do with our acknowledgement of the existence of God.

    Would you like me to inundate you with some more Founding Father quotes where they not only expressed belief in the existence of God, but expressed preference for Christianity as the unofficial religion of the U.S.?
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  • Posted by 11 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So the argument that someone from OK would have to pay for Vermont is absolutely false.

    Thanks for that insight.
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