Thanks for your reply. I thought I read in a previous post or perhaps on another thread of conversation that there have been some attempts at real life Gulch's. I know they, in keeping with the off the radar thing, would be hard to find, but I thought that this might be the place to find out more.
Why was the one in Chile a fraud?
Lise

The Chilean Galt's Gulch was a fraud. I don't know of any real Galt's Gulches yet, but then, if there are any, that's the way their members would have wanted their privacy kept. Several of us are planning a Gulch.

A question I have been wanting to ask for ages but forgot my password to sign in...... Can someone tell me all of the real life Galt's Gulches out there? I do check on the internet from time to time but the only one I have come up with is in Chile. If you are familiar with these and their websites if they have any, could you email me the list on richlise@hotmail.co.uk
Much appreciated
Lise (Looking forward to connecting to fellow objectivists, it can be lonely out there, especially in Australia)

Some people have stated that due to medical care an experimental community could not function. People managed to survive a long time before the advent of modern medicine. Isolated communities still survive. I can imagine a community with a good doctor or two, a surgeon and a compounding pharmacist could probably get along. There are still compounding pharmacists that provide herbal and traditional medicines along side modern pharmaceuticals. Didn't they bring outside supplies into the Gulch that could not be produced there from raw materials available?

Nubie here. A good emergency first aid course with training in CPR and rescue breathing might help. I get some medical supplies at the at a place that sells it for livestock. (I raise live stock) A bandage is a bandage where ever it comes from. I have heard of CERT training but have not taken the class. It helps to be able to improvise. I've made butterfly bandages out of first aid tape.

Some medicines for animals are the same as for humans. Many that would be suitable for animals are toxic to humans. I expect to make a major purchase of my own medications before going Galt.

People don't get sick in a safe environment with healthy foods and natural remedies. In countries or areas where doctors go on strike the average health of the population increases rapidly. That is enough proof for me.

there are many herbals that work as well, if not better than many modern drugs, that can be grown. We could / can trade with 'outsiders' too.

I "retired" from practice nearly 2 years ago. Ha. Friends and relatives get sick and guess who they call. Unlike being at the University or in private practice, I get to pick and chose who I take care of and what--or whether--I do. Normally I don't insist on a quid pro quo, but if nothing is forthcoming, that can't help but have an influence on my response to further requests.

On a different plane, though, it allows me to practice like the old fashioned GP of yore: I spend as much (or as little) time as I need or want on a problem, and my solutions are largely either a medication or a referral--I don't do surgery any more, but I still have a zillion excellent contacts.

In a pinch, surgery remains an option--I did it very well--but until and unless it's necessary, it's not necessary.

Very interesting! I'll have to check that out.

doe = done

I agree, given the statist attitude of the encircling territory and its increasingly hostile to liberty local/regional police. For that reason I have not been in favor of the 'hide in plain sight in the US' approach.
An 'island of liberty' inside a US dictatorship can be easily crushed by embargo.

I agree that America was a Galt's Gulch compared to other economies of the world, and not just in the 18th century. But there are minimum workable economies of scale, and a hidden valley in Colorado is much too small.

I want that America back! Well, maybe not all that the 18th century had to offer, but the political and economic philosophy... YES!

Quite right. I believe we are in agreement. I do not believe a completely self sufficient Gulch is practicable without some outside resources.

From Temlakos:

“The main idea of the Gulch is a community in isolation. When Dagny crashed into it, it was already self-sufficient, except for a few supplies for which Midas Mulligan had a "pipeline" from the outside. Let's not kid ourselves. That pipeline was Ragnar Danneskjöld. It was some of his prize cargoes that he couldn't necessarily sell in Europe. Ragnar explained to Hank Rearden he had "customers" in the USA territory. Correction: one customer. Midas Mulligan. “ http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/24...

America was a Galts Gulch in the 18th century. There will be another one in the future, but it may not take the form expected. Comparing failed hippies eutopia from the 60s to Objectivists' Gulch is like comparing an ox to a bull. I think we agree that a Gulch must exchange value for value to survive (unless there is massive capital invested, and that would likely be non optimal investment. Your points on needed import of raw materials are correct)

There can be no "real-life" Galt's Gulch. Medical as well as other economic and basic needs concerns will suffer in any "Galt's Gulch" scenario because such a setting is unsustainable. There were many hippie groups that attempted to set up utopias in the late 60's and they all failed. "Atlas Shrugged" is a fictional though experiment. The general idea of Galt's Gulch was that the producers, "the men of the mind", could withdraw from the world, and demonstrate that the world needed them instead of the other way around. But Galt's Gulch is an unworkable utopia when you analyze it realistically. If the "social contract" of civil society disintegrates, we are all as screwed as Eddie Willers, because there can and will be no deus ex machine of a Galt's Gulch or a magical invention that pulls electricity out of the air to save us.

AS is a bit of fiction. But the general idea of GG was that the producers, "the men of the mind", were withdrawing from the world, and demonstrating that the world needed them instead of the other way around. The point I was making is that GG is an unworkable utopia when you look at it realistically. If the "social contract" of civil society falls apart, we are all screwed because there can and will be no deus ex machine of a Galt's Gulch or a magical invention that pulls electricity out of the air to save us.

Hello DGriffin,
Yes. However, is it possible that the entire world was not the "looter's world"? A generality perhaps? There would, of necessity, have to be some outsiders still willing to trade value for value. The Gulch had planes, automobiles, trucks, refrigerators etc.... they could transport goods, but would require repairs and parts. As you have indicated the Valley could not have provided the myriad of raw materials. It couldn't provide all of the specialized skills, equipment and heavy industry necessary for self sufficiency on the level of which they were accustomed. It would not be possible to produce the durable goods or replacement parts for everything without bringing a substantial number of supplies and people in up front, or having some connections outside. Consider the wide array of materials and skills required to build an air conditioner or an automobile and other products. Almost every existing industry would have to be represented, even if on a smaller scale. This does not seem plausible in one valley. Some goods would need to be obtained outside, or the valley would have to be immense and filled with sufficient sources of every element. Today's even more technological age and wider array of skills, division of labor, etc. would make the logistics even more difficult.

Perhaps Ragnar could continue pirating or trading as required on his outside adventures. Otherwise the Gulch might be very short lived indeed. One generation of retired producers would be replaced in a generation. Perhaps that is all that is needed to bring the world to its senses.

Certainly, it is true that the premise was that the world could not maintain its infrastructure or economy, let alone grow it without the innovators and prime producers. And, the producers were better equipped to thrive independently than the looters... In our world, perhaps it is a matter of degrees. Whether it is an overt organizing of a strike or a disorganized happenstance that producers are simply not producing to their ability due to a sense of futility and unfairness (something happening today) the Thompsons of the world would be in an increasingly tough spot.

In AS it is after all a bit of fiction, a device, but it is also a powerful idea despite its implementation problems. Even if only short term it came to pass, the looters and moochers would be forced to face their inadequacy and need for producers. Collapse would be inevitable. That could be opportunity and impetus enough for a new beginning.

This thread's subject was healthcare and while doctors may not be a problem, like other things, medicines are obtained and manufactured from materials spread around the globe...
Just some thoughts... excellent ruminating. :)
Regards,
O.A.

My husband and I are in those "twilight years" and in poor health. We would not survive in a primitive Gulch, for long, but I would take the oath with no qualms, no reservations just the same. Some of the Gulchers may remember my few posts before my heart attack, and one just before the nearly lethal flash pulmonary oedema that hit in early Feb. My medical condition is at the edge of tip.over, but that changes nothing about living in the Gulch as a functioning, contributing member for the remaining time. I want my grandchildren to be Gulchers, but that will not happen. I can only say my children have their own battles to fight and may someday be able to take the leap.

I think you would be an asset. Your get-it-doe style is always needed. in fact, can you send me some of it? A small box would do --I'm just lacking a bit this month

I would be very proud to be a part of this group in a real Gulch. Not to mention happy.

L!O!L!
thank you so very much!
I suspect that it is related to assifasis [the spelling changes] - where what comes out of thee face is what should be coming out of the...you get my drift.

I think it's more a matter of hanging up your shingle and making contacts in the community than being "approved". [Although I approve of you!]