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  • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 8 months ago
    I quite agree with the folks who worry about stashing paper money. I wouldn't do it, as I could wind up with a stack of toilet paper at the whim of government. Precious metals have their drawbacks as well--silver, in particular can be bulky to store (though probably better for day to day transactions in an emergency than gold).

    We all face a question: what is a small, universal commodity that will retain its value more or less indefinitely? The answer to that will vary with circumstance. In a complete economic collapse, someone with food in a hungry nation is unlikely to want to trade it for precious metals, which simply won't be all that precious any more.

    One stray thought: during at least part of World War II, some aircrew and other personnel who might well end up stranded far beyond enemy lines were issued what appeared to be a small block of rubber as part of their survival kits. Inside the block were several gold coins and two or three simple gold rings. Vanity just might create value even when hunger puts a damper on anything that could be considered a "normal" economy.

    Another weird thought: what about penicillin and other basic but essential drugs? How long can they be stored? For the moment, at least, a lot of veterinary drugs can be purchased without a prescription and at relatively low costs. MOST (not all) are the same stuff we usually get from a pharmacist. It might be worth looking into.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
      I wouldn't stash paper money, or at least not all of a single currency. There are many durable stores of value from precious metals (which have been outlawed in the past), to real estate (which can come under taxation), to artwork (depends upon a buyer to convert into usable funds), to businesses (which have their own inherent risks of viability, taxation, and competition). There is no one safe bet, merely various bets, each with their own risks.
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      • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 8 months ago
        True. "Value" can become a complex matter to determine, depending on the situation. Gemstones have traditionally held value, but there are so many variables as far as quality that both buyer and seller would almost have to be gemologists to agree on trading value.

        And of course there is a considerable difference between amassing a "store of value" which will serve in something resembling the present economy and something of a "survival" situation. In the latter, raw materials and tools may well prove to have more value as media of exchange than any traditional currency.
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        • Posted by jdg 5 years, 8 months ago
          Both precious metals and gemstones have one big drawback -- it takes an expert to authenticate them, so if you collect either one you will want to live close to a trustworthy coin or gem dealer and hope he stays in business. Or become one yourself.

          Beyond that I can only suggest having some means to flee the country (only useful if the collapse is confined to one country), or to hide the way the Gulchers did. Because the other obvious ways of getting through an economic collapse (like having your own farm) only work until somebody stronger finds you and plunders you. With or without a badge.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
          While bartering will be sufficient for most of life's necessities, when it comes to the larger luxuries, there will still need to be some medium of exchange. Over time, precious metals have been the best store of value, while remaining relatively easily exchangeable. Even in those instances where it was "banned" there was always an underground economy that traded with precious metals.
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        • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago
          Its kind of big, but a store of toilet paper in an emergency would hold its value well. Something everyone needs, and could be traded if needed. Other things like toothpaste and other personal items or hardware store items could be in short supply like in Venezuela. None of these things would add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, but might add up to the equivalent of $10k or so.
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          • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
            Too many substitutes for TP. In the olden days, it used to be the Sears & Roebuck catalog, LOL ;-)
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            • Posted by BeenThere 5 years, 8 months ago
              And my father, born in 1912 to a Texas ranch family, claimed use of corn cobs (not dried, I hope!) if the S&R catalog ran out....!!!! TMI
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              • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
                Yeah, dried. Sorry.
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                • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 8 months ago
                  A slightly quirky idea, but what about....salt? Unless you are near the ocean, it's hard stuff to find from natural sources. Not only is it an essential nutrient, is it indispensible for curing meats and has other uses that would be essential following an economic meltdown. It is also non-perishable, and NO ONE is going to confiscate a couple of bags of water softener salt or similar.

                  Not as portable as gold or silver, but still, an item of value which draws its value from utilitarian purposes.

                  Roman soldiers were once paid in salt. "Salarium", from which the English word "Salary" originates.
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                  • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago
                    You are right. The tv series Jericho (on Netflix). Is a great demonstration of post apocalyptic recovery. And the town's asset WAS a salt mine !!!
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      • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago
        They would have to pull my precious metals out of my cold dead hand this time around. I would agree that smaller stashes of various stores of wealth are best.
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        • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 8 months ago
          I would recommend not only keeping it small in physical size, but keeping it in more than one location. Indeed, keep one small "stash" you can "give up" if you are ever pressed into giving it away, and keep the others separated by some distance. Yes, burial containers if need be, near natural landmarks, and keep the map in your head.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 8 months ago
      Bullets. They're one of those "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" kind of commodities... ;)

      Seriously, though. You want something that has persistent value. Value is derived from needs and wants. So start from Maslow's Hierarchy and go from there.

      Life => protection. This is where bullets come in.
      Shelter. Pretty straightforward.
      Water => filters and collection/access.
      Fire => fuel sources for heat/cooking. Amount may vary based on climate.
      Food => fuel for the body/mind. Especially non-perishables with long shelf life. If you don't know what these are, ask a "prepper".

      Everything else.
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    • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago
      I agree with you as to storing drugs like amoxicillin. I get mine from www.alldaychemist.com from india. Comes in very handy. Comes with expiration dates. If you have diseases that require drugs, its best to have a 6 month supply of them on hand in case disaster strikes.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 5 years, 8 months ago
    We were just taking with our broker about where to stash savings, and it is not just electronic fraud, but government. With D.C. talking about taking over savings accounts along with pensions and IRA funds, where to keep anything you earned safe becomes a big issue. My husband says we might as well spend it before they take it. Cars and jewelry sound good. Remodel the house, oops, Agenda 21 coming for that one too, and maybe the cars. The can in the yard is sounding better, except the new money can be tracked from a van on your street. What to do?
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    • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 5 years, 8 months ago
      I could pull all my money out, but in what form? Paper money could be rendered valueless, at the government's discretion, but gold coin is rather difficult to spend around here.
      I guess we'll just have to take our chances.
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 5 years, 8 months ago
        In 1933, FDR signed the Executive Order which banned the personal hoarding of gold. What is to stop the king of executive orders from doing likewise today?
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        • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
          1) They have to know you have it. 2) They have to find it, and 3) They have to take it away from me and that's not going to be easy. ;-)
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          • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 8 months ago
            FDR's order had a prominent loophole: it allowed personal ownership of gold for "collector's purposes". In practice, this meant there was no problem owning gold as long as the value of the gold content in a coin was worth more than 110% of its face value. And of course, the purchase and sale of jewelry has never been restricted.

            No way of knowing whether that loophole would exist in a future law, of course, but to my knowledge, while FDR's "law" was in effect, no individual was ever prosecuted for owning gold.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 8 months ago
    I was robbed a few months ago with a gun pressed against my head and a knife across the neck of my wife, I am happy (1) to be alive and (2) that I was not carrying much for the robber to take. I am not sure what the answer will be, but carrying your wealth does not look like a good option to me.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
      You don't need to carry it with you, merely have a physical stash. Anymore, I think I'd rather take my chances with a robber who's only looking for my money and can only take what little I might have on me, than an electronic thief who can take everything.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 5 years, 8 months ago
      Glad you survived... sounds to me like something made you or your wife (or both) stand out to the bad guys as "easy marks"... wrong neighborhood, wrong place, wrong attire for where you were, lack of situational awareness, I don't know. I've carryed huge amounts of Ø (or $) into some dicey areas, but I (a) blend in to the environment, and (2) have my spidey senses on full.
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      • Posted by Esceptico 5 years, 8 months ago
        It was a home invasion and I was targeted by the people I was investigating. Not in the US, though it happends here, too. You are correct about blending in, another tip is to carry fake ID and credit cards in a wallet to give robbers--keep the real stuff not in a wallet.
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        • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 8 months ago
          Such incursions usually end in a violent act in order for the miscreants to have time to make their getaway. So, you actually came out better than usual. I was using my wife's mini-van that advertised her Avon business. I guess the bad guy expected a little old lady. I may be old, but I'm not little. As he approached me I saw a knife appear. We were in the parking lot of a big multiplex theater. I carry a cane. It has a metal handle in the shape of an eagle with a prominent beak. I remembered my training and when he got in range, I bopped him in the head with the beak of Sam. (Named after the eagle on Sesame Street.) I got into my car and drove off. I thought about staying and using the cell to call the cops, but he was young and still had his knife. I drove off and let the cops sort it out. I was shaky by the time I got home, but I had an interesting story to tell and a lesson reinforced.
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  • Posted by term2 5 years, 8 months ago
    I would say that one should use the US dollar as a trading token for short term trades with other people. BUT. long term stores of wealth should be in gold or silver, and hidden effectively in a place only you know, that is difficult for others to find. Safe deposit boxes arent safe, in the the government can confiscate the contents easily.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 8 months ago
    I carry minimal I.D., one credit card and never more than $30. I figure that a couple of phone calls would take care of the I.D. and credit card, and $30, I can usually spare. I don't always carry because I live in what I thought was a safe neighborhood. I'm thinking of re-appraising that.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 8 months ago
    Obviously a long term and continuing problem but a side note or question. How does the total in this case stack up against the fraud perpetuated by our own in house situation starting, this time, with the government forced loans to those with no credit repayment ability and the ethanol fraud, through the printing press funny money and it's usual pathway through inflation, devaluation and debt repudiation ending up with the elderly, no longer able to work seeing their retirement funds slashed..

    Cui Bono? Who profits? Who skated and who evaded transferring to million dollar a year jobs?And who marched right out and voted them back into office every two years of more than the last twelve? Who allowed this to happen and who supported it? I suggest cleaning up our own mess as a first priority of public business and that starts with using the recall at the local level. if you don't have it get it - then use it. Not going to get at the top but a little hamstringing goes a long way at the bottom.

    Think about it next time you are tempted to vote for the government party in either of it's two forms. It's not what they say it's what they do, have done, and will continue doing that counts. Supporting evil greater or lesser only makes you an individual who is a supporter of evil.

    Äs for electronic fraud? Nothing new there only the format has changed. Is it any greater than changing coins for 'tokens and making printed money unacceptable for all debts pubic or private?

    I suspect the average attitude will be ho hum is it time for the game? Which channel. You get what you asked for and deserve. The power to do it to you was granted by none other than yourselves.

    Stop whining.
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  • Posted by wiggys 5 years, 8 months ago
    I do not believe one word that this theft took place. If it did we would have heard from people at least all over the USA of this breach. There must be something behind all of this for government to get more control over the funds of individuals when the funds are in banks. Maybe people should start thinking about getting coffee cans and dig holes.
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    • Posted by gafisher 5 years, 8 months ago
      The banking system is MUCH shadier than most people, even here, realize. Hiding thefts like this is in every bank's best interests, and the fractional reserve system makes it relatively easy [ http://youtu.be/1HYSMxu-Dns ].

      By the way, are you aware that you no longer "deposit" your money in the bank? For a few years now, when you put funds in the bank you are technically *loaning* the bank your money, and instead of being a _Depositor_ who MUST be repaid, you are now a _Creditor_ who, should the bank fail, must stand in line behind the bank's landlord and cleaning service in *hopes* that the court will give you a reasonable portion of your money back out of the bank's actual assets.
      [ http://bit.ly/Bail-In ]

      Your cash ain't nothin' but trash ... [ http://youtu.be/KdFGbJBi6e8 ]
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    • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 5 years, 8 months ago
      This story sounds similar to the letter I recently received, concerning online purchases of some computer games.
      It seems that some hacker installed malware into the company's server and was attempting to steal credit card info from purchasers, during their transactions. The outfit found and removed the malware, but sent letters out to all affected customers, as a precaution. They also offered a complementary year's membership in an ID protection service from one of the big three credit reporting agencies (Experian, I believe).
      This incident just occurred, which is why I think it might even be connected.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 8 months ago
      A nosy Big Brother and online crooks are two reasons I shun doing any business online.
      There are a couple exceptions but I prefer to keep a low online profile.
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  • Posted by Wags 5 years, 8 months ago
    You have to like the fact that he is wearing a Peter Weyland - Yutani Corp t-shirt. "Building better Worlds"

    If you can't hold it, you don't have posession!
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 8 months ago
    Physical possession in the form of Au coins will be preferable. Will you be riding shotgun?
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    • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
      My services are for hire.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 8 months ago
        Riding shotgun sounds like a good shrug job, don't you think? ;)
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        • Posted by 5 years, 8 months ago
          Could be. Gotta find the right "sugar daddy" who places the same value on my time as do I.
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          • Posted by teri-amborn 5 years, 8 months ago
            My suggestion is: Get some skills that can be traded for what you need/want.
            I do a lot of that....
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            • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 8 months ago
              Knowledge may be the most secure exchangeable commodity. There is no limit to the amount that can be stored, provided you go to the effort to acquire it. And the number of people who have never bothered with the effort is astonishing.

              I realized this not long ago when I had a flat tire on my 14 year old car, which has been in my possession for just over four years. When I removed the jack and spare, I discovered that neither had ever been used before. There was no air in the "donut" (I carry a 12 volt compressor, so little problem there--and my bad for never checking).

              Surely the previous owner had had flat tires--everyone does. But he'd never changed a tire. Presumably he got out his phone and called whoever provided "road service". The thought never occurred to me--I grew up in the country before the age of cell phones and flat tires were part of life.

              A simplistic example, but at least one person out there paid people to change tires for him (some to think of it, I once knew a woman who refused to learn to pump her own gas). I'd bet that most of us have more significant skills than that.
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