Rather dramatically 'not embraced', eh? The advantage I have is that I cite fact to support what I say...

Jan

And your grandmother did not plan to be a single mother. Sounds like she did her best with tough circumstances

Wow! Pretty great story there! It must have been interesting to meet him back then.
He would be saddened by things now I'm sure. A friend of mine worked for him, and the his successor. A marine that was always stationed w/them, flew where they went. I have a birthday card from GHW Bush and Barbara from their time in the WH.
One of our fellow gulchers took him out crabbing actually. I will ask if she will post the photo...

"The best revenge is to live well."

Because she was such a failure. Miserable looter. Glad she can see the success. I hope it makes her insides rot.

The whole issue of care of children is very distorted in our current culture. It would seem to me that one should not even have the child until one is pretty secure in being able to take care of it. There are special cases where one's carefully planned support structure is yanked out from under then (husband dies, mother comes down with some debilitating illness, hurricane or other disaster comes along).

My grandmother lost my grandfather in a mining accident in the early 1900's after coming here from Italy. Then there was the depression and she lost all savings in a bank failure. All the kids were taken by the catholic church into their orphanage until my grandmother could get back on her feet. All that time my grandmother was a "single parent" and worked continuously, learning english and doing whatever she could. As I remember it, my mother said they were in the orphanage for several years (depth of the depression), and they was so embarrassed that she and my aunt didnt even tell me until she was in her 70's. It was a stigma back then. Today, I am happy that the church was there for them.

Amazing man. My dad worked hard and was self reliant as well but didn't recognize moochers quickly enough. His word was his bond and I think it amazed him when someone would go back on their word.

In today's world moochers are considered to be superior to producers. For example, have you noticed a person who has been through rehab is considered to be more aware and advanced than someone who has stayed sober? Another example: single mothers are celebrated and more special than a woman who marries before childbirth. All a part of that altruistic guilt trip of which you speak

My dad went through the depression and likely had little time to read while supporting his family. However, every decision he made, every bit of advice he gave me, was pure Rand. It was as if it were part of his whole fiber, a way of life. I have no idea where he learned to believe that way, but he lived and breathed Objectivism. I am so glad he did, as I saw it in action every day of my life.

Thank you. It just upsets me that they are bogus. If someone really had a run of bad luck or some unforeseen illness, I would be the first to help them get back on their feet. But when people try to hoodwink me on this, I can be pretty blunt. It bothers me that others dont seem to be willing to see whats going on and challenge it. I guess the altruistic guilt trip worked on them

Term2, I think it's great that you challenge their stories

I never get the truth, which would be that they just want to get whatever they can from whoever they can and that they are lazy but people are so stupid and guilty that they give up money.

I get the sob stories about how they lost their jobs, they cant find work, etc. I tell them they should look harder and that they are spending as much energy on begging as they would at a job. For the young ones, I look them in the eye and tell them they are young and look healthy, and what are they doing trying to get money from someone like me who is old and sick but still working, and how I should ask THEM for money. They never give me any, but just walk away telling me "god bless". I then tell them that god should bless THEM instead, cause I have already been blessed.

I and my brothers are so different it hard to believe we came from the same gene pool!

We can only keep trying to spread the message.

I wish I had read it as a teenager. My father has 3 sisters and 1 brother. His brother worked hard his whole life and is retired. All 3 sisters married alcoholic losers. One was smart enough to kick hers out and still works hard everyday. One of the losers made it to retirement although he may be too drunk to know it. The other has mooched off the government his entire life. Funny how different siblings can turn out.

Excellent points. I guess the one thing I kept thinking was that the book would have made him see his thieving partner for what she was and he would have done something sooner. Never will know but something I think about. In the years since we have been rid of her the business has thrived. Oddly enough I think that always bothered her. I know she wanted us to fail.

This is such a great thread. It is so interesting to read the many different ways we all came to Ayn Rand.
I read Atlas somewhere between 14 and 16 when my mother recommended it to me after she had read it.
The most interesting thing to me is that I have 2 brothers, both of whom turned out to be lazy moochers. I'm pretty sure neither read Rand; they would be too lazy.
Since I read Atlas 45 years or so ago, I have been so sad to see it all coming true, and often I think, "But it doesn't have to be this way!"
So Galt's Gulch has been on oasis in the desert; comfort for my soul. I know people like you exist, but it means everything to actually communicate with you.

Your dad may not have read it but it sounds like he lived it. My wife has an older half sister who is real nice but a moocher. She knows not to ask either of us anymore. I like her personally but I wish she had chosen a different path as well.

Sorry to hear that Zero. At least you get it.

I read the book a long time ago. Apparently it didn't impress me back then because I mostly forgot about it, (I remember reading Peyton Place too {disgusting}). All I remembered is that I read them.

Someone gave me a new copy several years ago (Obama was in office), and I almost read it cover to cover, I could not put it down, but I'm not a speed reader so it took me about a week and the weight of it hurt my wrist. What impressed me the most this time was that it was just like reading the newspaper or a diary of exactly what was happening today, only the names of the people and the action were changed to protect the guilty. Every chapter I ran to my wife and exclaimed that I just read in the book what I had just seen on the news. She read it after I finished.

I figure most of us read (for pleasure) what we enjoy, those stories that agree with our morals and how we think about life and everything else, the things that enforce our opinions. I don't think AS really make someone change that much, only perhaps make them more aware of how and what they believe in. I think this can be shown by asking someone who hated the book or hasn't read it what they think about it..

Cool story Neal. I understand your dads thinking about the guy who was stealing. I told my father a few times I could prove his partner was stealing. He said he could to but fighting her would take more money and time he didn't want to waste. Hang on to that card from Reagan. Not sure when we'll see another President like him.

Term2, what do the bums say?

I have always said I don't mind fair competition. I just don't want stabbed in the back and I don't like seeing the consumer cheated. I see this a lot. Manufactures will manufacture their product one way for us and a cheaper way for the large chain stores and then put it in the same package. I simply find the practice unethical.

Hi Jan. hard to believe neither one of your sisters embraced the ideas of Rand. Must be some interesting conversations you have.