Health Insurance Sometimes Borders on a Racket

Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago to Economics
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We took our kid to a doctor for a minor but persistent respiratory problems. The doc suggested two possible diagnostic tests. We asked some questions about whether the results would affect which interventions we used. I thought the results may or may not be of some use, so I asked what it would cost. He said something like, “Oh no, do you have to pay for medicine [outside of health plan premiums]?” We told him yes, but the cost would not be a burden for us at all. We talked through it and we all decided the tests wouldn't affect the treatment and would only be worthwhile if someone else were paying for it.

This is the THIRD TIME in the past four years a doctor has suggested something that costs several thousand dollars and withdrew the suggestion after we took a moment to work through a quick-and-dirty cost/benefit analysis.

There was an opposite example with my wife's pregnancy. The doc started to say we could have so many ultrasound tests and then said, “oh wait, you're private pay. Nevermind. You can have them every day if you want. They're $183 each.”

These insurance plans that insure against every little trifling expenditure are a gravy train for providers. They start with people wanting to turn over responsibility for managing expenses to a company or gov't.

People should be free to make stupid health decisions, like my decision to indulge in Taco Bell and other unhealthful habits.


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  • Posted by Snoogoo 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I can see that, my question was actually directed CG because his post comes off as very disorganized. I don't get what point he is trying to make because there is no coherent question asked. The statement "Health Insurance Sometimes Borders on a Racket" doesn't really mean anything to me. I used to be a liberal myself (yeah it hurts, but the first step is to admit you have a problem) so I wish I could break this down logically to him, but I can't at this point since I can't find a solid point to the post. That seems to be a symptom of being a liberal, kind of like an alcoholic who wakes up with the same clothes on from last week and can't remember how he ended up sleeping in that alley behind the Chinese restaurant. It's time to go to rehab.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But in Atlas, the event that brought about the end of the looters era was the absence of the victims. In the US today, all us victims are still here! Getting the blood sucked out of us more and more. I finally understand why Dagny couldn't let go, because I cant let go myself.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is good, Robbie. You are making me think. What it comes down to is that each of us on this site has a purpose in being here, and I wonder what CG's purpose is. Care to answer, CG?
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You actually believe that AS is non-fiction? And that you have seen the future exactly as it will be?
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't understand how a person could agree with any teachings of Objectivism and be a BHO voter. In order to vote for BHO, a person must believe that it is ok to take from one man and give to another, and CG does believe that. You can be on this website and have those beliefs, but I don't understand why someone with those beliefs would want to be here. That doesn't at all imply that I think they shouldn't be here. Your assumption is wrong in that regard.
    CG believes its ok to take from one man to give to another if he approves of the reasons.Neither Ayn Rand, nor I, nor most of the people on this site,would ever sanction that evil.
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "If we had catastrophic insurance and folks paid for their routine care needs, things would be rational."

    You read my mind...this was the norm while I was growing up.
    I have always felt that the introduction of HMOs started the spiraling down. Suddenly there was no reason not to go to the doctor for a sniffle. The attitude became "why not see a doctor? I have unlimited visits, and I've already paid for it."
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    When do you mean? When he ran as libertarian and got about 1% of the vote? If so, then I'd think you'd have to go back to Perot for one with any chance (until he pulled out of the race, that is.) Or I could have a different definition of 'reasonably electable' ;^)
    RP was certainly the best one for the job every time he ran.
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I honestly believe that CG is trying to 'cold turkey' off of liberalism.
    I wish the people here would quit voting him down...I like seeing his comments, and I wouldn't blame him for leaving!
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We got another 4 years that will speed up the end of the looters' era much like as in AS.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I did not say that Gary Johnson had a chance of hell of getting elected. My vote was a ... shrug.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    FACTS THAT TRUMPS YOUR 4 FACTS: The Republican Party is now a waste of time, has no positive impact, and is a two party system (establishment vs. Tea), and although nearly equally divided in support, that is not equally divided in funds. The establishment Republicans are like Palpatine before he became Emperor.
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  • Posted by Snoogoo 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You identified the source of the problem. The current administration likes to tout the "Numbers of insured are increasing" This is a huge false correlation to healthcare and insurance. Just because you have insurance does not guarantee you better healthcare or outcomes. The reason people don't get care period is because it is too damn expensive which is the case if you are insured or not. You are right, this is because treating healthcare as an insurance product and of course, the government getting involved which has manipulated the market to the point where there really isn't a market. The insurance market can take care of long-term care, cancer insurance, etc, they have policies for that to adequately price it out, just in case you want coverage for something that could affect your income and rack up costs. Currently the health insurance industry is completely wacky because we have government mandated plans that cover pregnancy in single men and 80 year old women, testicular cancer treatment for little girls, and doctors who want diagnostics for EVERYTHING because they are scared to death of getting a malpractice claim against them which can destroy their career. Then you have the hypochondriacs and obese, chain-smoking baby making machines that are in the same risk pool as the healthy, active, responsible people. We are deep into it. I do believe it can be reformed but it would take another 50 years to get back to market driven healthcare and lower the costs. Part of it is increasing the supply of doctors and PA's, capping malpractice claims, paying less for repeat hospital admissions, taking off the limits for FSA and HSA contributions and allow them to roll-over annually, allow high deductible plans for the healthy people who want them. Roll back Medicare and Medicaid since they are going bankrupt anyway until they disappear - those payroll contributions can be put into a savings account or pay towards a personal LTD plan or catastrophic coverage, but let it be a personal choice. Eventually a market could resurface, but it will take a long time.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Judge results, not promises.
    Are your goals to have bigger more intrusive government?
    That is the only result of the DemRep Party of the past 100 years.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Great. How is that solving your medical (just to stay on thread topic) issues?

    The strike was a literary device, that's all. Even AR said so. She didn't believe that "stopping the motor of the world" could ever work in the real world. We must take positive action to bring about the change that is needed. Inaction is only going to allow the tyrants to become permanently in charge.
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    FACT: we are a two party system, almost equally divided in support and funds.
    FACT: third party votes have no positive impact.
    FACT: third party votes CAN have negative impact (e.g.: Ross Perot).
    FACT: third party votes are a waste of time.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I love you like a brother my friend, but on this one you're just plain wrong. GJ had no chance in hell of getting elected. Between your protest vote and the millions of conservatives who decided not to vote at all instead of voting for a milquetoast, we ended up with another 4 yrs. And these last 2 are going to be some that we've never seen before.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Insurance, in its current form, is the entire problem. It isn't truly insurance, it is pre-paid healthcare. It encourages the user to "get as much as they can" since someone else is paying (at least the major preponderance of the costs).

    If we had catastrophic insurance and folks paid for their routine care needs, things would be rational. The only thing worse will be gov't paid healthcare.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    CG is the board liberal. He seems to embrace many themes from AS, but when pressed on how he has worked to implement them, we find out that he voted for BHO and supports gov't intrusions on liberty. Just doesn't make sense.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Did you vote for a viable candidate or one with no chance in hell of being elected? If the latter, you are just as much to blame.

    I often see the argument that a little poison is just as bad as a lot, it just takes longer to kill you. That's the wrong analogy. We have a system where the momentum is in one direction. That cannot be changed all at once (not even by stopping the engine of the world). In fact, the only outcome of such a drastic change would be tyranny - which I doubt that many of us here are looking to implement. To change the momentum is going to take small but persistent movements over a long time. I fear that anymore we don't have the time nor fortitude of national leadership to do what is necessary.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You don't understand why an BHO voter would be on this site, by implication that they shouldn't be. AR was a firm atheist and Objectivism has a foundation of atheism. Does that mean that those who are religious have no place here?
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