No, it doesn't matter what an employee is worth; it matters what his *labor* is worth to the employer. Yes, the employer is going to try getting employees as cheaply as he can, just as you are going to try buying the nicest car, tv, house, lay-z-boy you can as cheaply as you can.

Unions didn't get folks a wage they could live on; they're still screaming about needing a living wage for their membership. Not once did a union ever forgo its dues for the sake of its membership. Unions exist for the benefit of the union officers and organizers, not the members.

My great-grandfather helped found a union; my grandfather was a life-long union man. My father quit a union when he saw the corruption within it. When he tried contracting for himself, the union came and sabotaged his supplies and equipment, and tried burning him alive. I've never belonged to a union, and I never will.

The idea of the employees of a given shop in a given *dangerous* profession collectively bargaining is great. Of course, with an endless supply of immigrants, it won't do squat, because your union members will get fired and replaced with new workers... unless the government passes a law protecting your precious thugs, forcing employers to let them screw with his employees, even if they have good working conditions and just pay rates.

Read the part of Atlas Shrugged about the riot at Rearden's mill. That *is* how unions work.

LetsShrug says: "You do what you have to do to get by..."

Yes, and that's why there is now a movement to unionize McDonald's, and other fast food employees, into unions. Laborers can combine their skills like infestors combine their money to make money.

From SetsShrug: "Business owners have the right to run THEIR business the way THEY see fit... "

Absolutely correct. And laborers can themselves combine. It's just as the rich combine assets they can combine their efforts of labor. Why shouldn't gangs of laborers be able to negotiate with gangs of owners?

And for ALL my criticism of Walmart, I still feel toward them as Tess Carlisle's secretary Kimberly Cannon felt about her in, "Guarding Tess".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPAmy4XO_....
When Mrs Carlisle was kidnapped, Kimberly ran up to agent Chesnic and said, "She hired me"... "I know, Kimberly"... she touches him again... "...when others wouldn't".

You and your kind took my self-respect along with my balls, with your do-goodery. I *chose* to draw unemployment, so I'm the one to blame. But Walmart gave me my balls back. It's because they would hire me when others wouldn't that I now have enough self-respect to recognize that I require better employment where my industry and creativity can be applied to my own benefit.

You people only care about how YOU feel, not how your victims feel. "Oh, I feel *terrible* that these people aren't rich and riding around in limos." Solution; *give* them money so YOU feel good, regardless of what it does to their character and self-respect.

People who care about themselves hand out welfare. It's like you don't get freedom at all.
Freedom isn't safe, or secure, or prosperous. It's a road to safety and prosperity, but you have to drive it yourself.
. Because freedom means YOU take responsibility for YOUR life, you don't pawn it off on your government, your community or your employer.

Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty, or give me death!", not "Give me liberty, or give me guaranteed health insurance at a price I can afford". He didn't say, "Give me liberty, or give me a job where I make twice what my labor is worth to my employer."

What about the stockholders... which includes a buttload of employees?

Any union organizer gets near the Walmart where I work, I go to jail, but he goes to hell. Union organizers do well to stay the hell away from me.

If they succeed in unionizing Walmart, Walmart will decay and go out of business just like GM, and short of a government bailout, there will be massive unemployment as a result.

The cheap tv is not about Walmart; it's about you. Walmart is a consumer of unskilled and semi-skilled labor, just as you are a consumer of electronic devices such as TVs. (I notice you didn't address the questions about giving them more money than the asking price).

As far as the cheap labor goes, I'm sure the employees will still make money on their labor efforts. Just not as much after expenses.

It's up to Walmart to decide what their profit margin should be, not we employees, not union thugs. If we don't like it, we can quit and go work elsewhere... or start our own "big box" store... or start our own line of "Dollar Stores", which are booming.

Then they changed it. Mensa was 50% when I took the test 30 years ago. 136 was the required IQ.

Where it results from oppression, the oppression almost always is government-induced.

No, I wasn't alive a hundred years ago.

If I had been, I would have told them about the evil government flooding the country with immigrants to keep the labor pool plentiful so employers didn't have to offer decent working conditions or much pay, because labor was so plentiful and therefore cheaply had.

Half the employees I encounter at McDonald's, btw, can't speak English. The other half are Hispanic.

Every time I go to a national fast food establishment I compare the robotic greetings and up sales (fries with that) programed into those folks. Is it work you would want to do for what they are paid?

Really... And you stick up for the sweat shop owners of old?

BTW, I don't mind a business owner making a lot of money. But it doesn't have to be at the expense of workers. Ben and Jerry's and Costco are excellent examples of how it can be done.

Oh boy, now he's gonna demand what "sweat shop circumstances" are. OK, here you go. Any circumstances where folks are treated badly enough to organize to be able to stand up as a group.

Any margin is proper as long as they don't do it with government assistance or sweat shop circumstances.

Their prices will NOT go up. They will still be competitive with other fast food places. Only their huge profit margins will go down. McDonald's and other fast food restaurants don't charge on a fixed mark-up. They grab what the traffic will bare. That's a huge dirty little secret of that business and why they make so much money.

Walmart makes tons of money. I have no sympathy for the family that owns it.

For the workers... When they get fed up enough they will unionize. As a group they will have the strength to negotiate a far better deal than individuals.

As far as the cheap TV goes I'm sure Walmart will still make money on their marketing efforts. Just not as much after expenses.

Faulty assumption, Hirghm. Not mine.

See, rather than welfare I much prefer the idea that those low earners who are at that level because of corporate greed organize and market themselves as a group. Then they can have a better position to establish their value.

Doesn't matter how much an employee is worth. It just matters how little they can pay them.

That's why unions ended the sweat shops and got folks a wage they could live on.

Actually top 2% on a standardized recognized test. You can get more information at US.Mensa.org

Were those who ran sweatshops heroes to you?