WTH?! Without consent?

Posted by lrbeggs 9 years, 2 months ago to News
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Earlier, during a break, Bracamontes repeatedly told his lawyers he wanted to plead guilty.

"You don't have the right to plead guilty without our consent," Assistant Public Defender Jeffrey Barbour told him quietly while the judge waited. They later blamed his outbursts on anxiety.

I didn't read any further. My brain was boiling.
SOURCE URL: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/i-did-kill-those-cops-suspect-says-of-california-slayings/ar-AA8Zbka


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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 2 months ago
    Quote from Sixth Column by Robert A. Heinlein, probably my second favorite author:
    "The whole purpose of the complicated structure of western jurisprudence in criminal matters, as built up over the centuries, has been to keep the innocent from being convicted and punished through error. It sometimes lets the guilty go free in the process, but that's not the purpose......his guilt has been established with much more certainty than a court could possibly establish it.......and I don't propose to extend to him the protections that were devised to protect the innocent."
    Stop playing legal games and execute the bastard.
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    • Posted by Timelord 9 years, 2 months ago
      And more recently to ensure conviction and punishment through official corruption regardless of actual innocence or guilt >:(

      That's not a comment on this case, just in general.
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    • Posted by $ Snezzy 9 years, 2 months ago
      Reason Magazine founder Lanny Friedlander (a Libertarian-style fan of Ayn Rand and of Robert Heinlein) told me, about 1971, that he had written to Bob for clarification of his views on political philosophy. Lanny received, he said, a brief letter from Bob's wife Virginia that said Bob did not wish to discuss political philosophy, and that he had nothing more to say on the subject than was contained in his novels.

      Rand was similarly circumspect, indeed even more so, about granting permission to use her name or words for some purpose.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 2 months ago
        Heinlein's philosophy obviously changed enormously over his writing career. The good thing about writing fiction is that your characters are the ones with words in their mouths and you can change what is said in the next book with the next set of characters. The bad thing about writing fiction is that irrespective of fact number one, the readership attributes the statements to the writer.

        I imagine that it would be very difficult to recant some of the things that some of your characters said at various points, while keeping hold of some of the other points you - excuse me 'your characters' - made.

        Jan
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        • Posted by khalling 9 years, 2 months ago
          Wow. This is interesting and a little scary. As a writer, you can be inspired to write all kinds of characters that have a completely different world view from you. That 's why it 's called fiction.
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        • Posted by $ Snezzy 9 years, 2 months ago
          Indeed, I think that is precisely why he didn't want to stand up and explain to naive libertarian youth why he was not his characters. Lanny was very disappointed, had probably hoped to interview him for Reason.
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    • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
      I couldn't agree more. However, I would use the Herbie Method of execution. Being the judge, I would sentence him to have a piece of him cut off every day, until the amount of cuts equaled the number of people he killed. Too barbaric? Talk to the families and loved ones of those he killed and then come back and we'll talk.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 2 months ago
    I live in the Sacramento area - this was one of the most horrific crimes we have seen. Sacramento is 'California' but its also a relatively large "small town" and we don't really have crime like this. We're not LA, we're not Stockton.

    This guy and his toked-up wife were sitting in a car in a parking lot of a known-druggie apartment complex, and a police car rolled up on them. One officer got out and approached, the other covered from behind. This pillar of society shot the cop approaching in the forehead and shot the other cop in the face with an AR15. (I love guns, I'm just indicating that this was a high velocity, tumbling .223 caliber round that tends to do a lot of damage).

    He then took off, figured they needed to ditch the car, and car-jacked a civilian on a nearby street, when he didn't immediately get out of the car, said pillar of society shot him in the forehead as well with his rifle at point-blank range. He kind of survived I think, I haven't seen any updates on his condition... this was last September/October or so.

    Then of course they fled, and in Auburn, California, he shot another Detective in the forehead. He also died instantly.

    One of the cops was just married a month or so earlier, the other was a father of little kids and his own father died 20 years ago to the day, also in the line of duty, in a police helicopter crash.

    This piece of sh*t deserves whatever they give him, unfortunately, there is a 50-year lag on executions here, so sending him to Gitmo or whatever is fine with me.

    He is also an illegal, and was deported several times before, always returning to the Salt Lake City area. It wasn't really clear in the news why he was even in Sacramento. Although... it doesn't take a stretch to figure out this guy is probably a narco... he's back & forth across the border a lot (which is costly to do and normally a life's savings for someone in Mexico) and had some impressive firepower for an illegal, at best, I've only seen Mexican nationals with a .38 special and normally barely-operable or something. Non-gangbanger Mexicans are just not the types to carry heat. It's really a foreign concept for them.
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 2 months ago
    Yes, anything without consent breaches every sense of morality and human sovereignty.

    So it's not merely this instance, but it is all governments. I did not consent to be ruled by this or any government, nor to allow any government to void my Right to Life, Liberty, Property and/or the Happiness of Prosperity.

    Who can name any human living today who gave any such consent to be Ruled... by any other Human?
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    • Posted by Rocky_Road 9 years, 2 months ago
      "Who can name any human living today who gave any such consent to be Ruled... by any other Human?"

      I consented once...and then boarded a train for boot camp.
      Never regretted the event, or the subsequent story.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 2 months ago
        I did as well. And I think you for your service.

        I too never regretted the service, though getting an excellent engineering education as the "price" of such was certainly a bargain. Luckily for me, there weren't much in the way of shooting engagements during my active duty.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 2 months ago
      I cannot name names, but there would be a class of such individuals who used the traditional wedding oath who voluntarily swore to 'love, honor and obey' their husband.

      I suspect this is a rather large class.


      Jan
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 2 months ago
    lawyers have a different view of the world, it seems;;;
    right and privilege and personal property and things
    like that have different definitions. -- j

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  • Posted by sfdi1947 9 years, 2 months ago
    All Things Considered, lets save the tax payers a bunch of money. Take Bracamontes and both of his lawyers, cut them so their bleeding pretty good and Helocast them a mile off shore of the Faeroe Islands, west of San Francisco. Anybody who can swim back to the Golden Gate gets life in prison, at hard labor, on bread and water, w/o parole.
    I'm certain the officers who buried their comrades and coworkers would be happy to toss them our of the helicopter.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 2 months ago
    The lawyers in this case should be subject to punishment for obstruction... the defendant/perpetrator should be the ultimate arbiter regarding confession, period. If the court wishes psychological evaluation before accepting, so be it.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 2 months ago
    I wonder how many years this confessed cop killer will wait in Death Row waiting to be executed.
    As long as you're careful and follow procedure, Death Row is the easiest post for an officer to work inside a state prison. Been there, done that.
    For some reason--wonder what that could be?--almost all Death Row inmates do not want to rock the boat at all.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 2 months ago
    That was big news here when that guy went on his rampage. He got all the way up to Auburn (just about an hour drive) before they got him. The town was quite on-edge.
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  • Posted by barwick11 9 years, 2 months ago
    In the (highly unlikely in this case, but possible in others) event that he actually is innocent, it's the justice system's job to find out.

    For example, if he's part of an organized crime group and was threatened with the life of his family if he doesn't take the fall.
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    • Posted by Ben_C 9 years, 2 months ago
      Good point, but given data bases and any prior arrest records this can be sorted out in a plea deal. Lots to figure out in the process, ie drugs, etc, but guilt is guilt. Being told you have to have permission to confess is absurd. If he was in Mexico he would have been shot by now.
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